NG steam service speed for different gauges

In the UK at least, we are used to the idea of narrow gauge trains ambling along with no haste. However, this is not always the case - in Ireland for example, the Cork, Blackrock & Passage line had commuter trains. In other parts of the world "narrow gauge" is the main line gauge (normally 3'6'' or metre) and these could be considerably faster than for narrow gauge branches.
I am interested to know what sort of maximum line speeds in normal service were typical / were achieved for various gauges. Would anyone be able to help me?

 

Im not sure some of the UK Narrow Gauge lines could be described as ambling, the Ffestiniog while only doing 25MPH like everyone else, can give a quite nippy impression due to some of the tight curves and limited clearences.

 

Ffestiniog trains are know to have travelled considerably faster than 25mph in 'old company' days.

 

Would of been interesting to know what sort of speeds the gravity train clocked in the past before the brakes went in.

 

It can be supposed that with the right permanent way and equipment - QR's tilting trains for example - top speeds for metre/3'-6" lines will not be much lower than standard gauge levels.

As for steam locos, I recall reading in David Wardale's priceless book, "The Red Devil", that he seriously sought permission to make an attempt on the World record for steam with class 26 No.3450 on the Saldanha Bay mineral railway which is dead straight for 100s of miles; I would loved to have witnessed that if it had been allowed!!

Cheers

Alan

 

I can remember looking at some drivers/guards record cards (from the 1930's from memory) for the Isle of Man Railways in the Jurby Transport Museum that showed speeds in the 40 - 45mph range were a regular occurrence (and as they appear in these documents presumeably they were officially sanctioned). Not sure what their current speed limit is but I have recorded 35-40mph on the Colby levels section in recent years.

Fastest I've travelled on 2ft was behind a NG15 on the Avontuur line a few years back where somebody pacing the train in a car on the level section on the outskirts of Port Elizabeth reckoned we peaked at close to 40mph. That however may have been a smidgen over the official line limit. (Sounded good though!)

Chris Webster

 

If someone is prepared to provide a track of decent length, alignment and quality, even the 600mm gauge could get well over twice what is common today. Think about it the other way round; the width and height of Eurotunnel shuttles are similar in relation to the 1435mm gauge as is the FR/WHR to the 600mm and the shuttle can do 140kph.

 

The FR was originally limited to 12mph following the introduction of steam locos, however this was removed after a few years and following the introduction of double engines speeds in the 30 to 40mph range were not uncommon. Gravity trains are also known to have run at these quite regularly speeds, in fact the railway seems to have been canted for about 40 -50 mph running. Don't forget this was all on short lengths of double head or bull head rail, on a formation that never even envisaged steam engines or passengers being carried over it.

These days line speed is 20mph and the FR probably has the smoothest track of any preserved railway in the country. The ride is still quite wild on the single engines at 20 though, you certainly notice when the speed has crept up a little too far. The Fairlies are a complete contrast. They must be the most stable 2ft gauge locos ever built.

Just to point out these days unfitted freight trains including gravity trains are limited to 15mph on the FR.

 

Why would you want to travel at 50mph rather than 25? We're selling the view out of the window, not competing with an airline.

 

That shoulden't come as a suprise, sitting on two bogies at the outer ends like a Coach or Diesel.

 

If the WHR reaches Bangor I can see passengers being happy with that part of the journey being at a higher speed. Also, we need to bear two things in mind . Firstly that the non-enthusiast market is sensitive to total "time on the trains" as a proportion of their disposable day out and secondly, just like on the big railway, there are economies of operation from faster running. Surely running from Caernarfon to Porthmadog in around 1hr 45min for a 2-hour turnround must have some advantages? The obvious one is a two-hourly service from only two trains.

 

Bangor - Caernarfon should be standard gauge. Trains that currently terminate at Bangor could run on to Caernarfon and back for very little extra cost, I am assured by a very senior NR man.

 

My in-laws in NZ (3'6") talk about driving parallel to the railways on the Canterbury Plains and being unable to keep up by car with the steam hauled services in the 1950s. Roads and cars wouldn't have been what they are today, but that still probably means the steam services doing a fairly steady 70 - 75mph at their fastest - quite impressive from a 4-8-2 with 4'6" driving wheels... See NZR JA class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Wikipedia claims 78mph fastest ever official speed in NZ for a diesel railcar, but makes unverified claims about the Ja locos going faster than that).

Tom

 

Thanks for all the interesting comments. While it is fascinating to hear about various alleged or substantiated records, I was really more interested in normal service speeds - and particularly gauges smaller than one metre.

 

In respect of the Isle of Man examples I quoted previously, I've since found that some of those driver record cards are reproduced in Boyd's history of the railway and confirm speeds up to 45mph were common (and permitted) on several sections of both the Port Erin and Ramsey lines.

Turning to current times, I believe the line limits on the 1000mm Harz system and some of the 760mm lines in Saxony are 60kmh although individual locos may be limited to less. (Somebody else may be able to confirm these)

I did also find details that when the 760mm line in Austria from Zell am Zee to Krimml Falls was rebuilt a couple of years back it was done so with a line limit of 80kmh.

Hope this helps
Chris Webster