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Future of WCML Steam

Discussie in 'Steam Traction' gestart door Big Al, 15 aug 2012.

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  1. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    From December, the First Group has won the franchise from Virgin Trains on the WCML. As part of their 'acceptance speech' on Radio 4, First stated that there is plenty of capacity on the line for more services. Who is to say whether that is true or not. However, what we know is that it's difficult getting a path out of Euston in the morning and southbound from Carlisle, it's also tricky fitting in a steam path.

    So if it's true that more fast services can be accommodated then that feels like it'll be even more difficult slotting in steam. Let's hope not.
     
    Big Al, 15 aug 2012
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  2. campainr

    campainr Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't take anything these people say seriously Al. If they're going to reduce Anytime fares by 15% then I'm Richard Branson. Whoever would have thought that people would one day mourn the demise of Virgin Trains?

    When the WCML was upgraded we said it was the end of WCML steam forever, at least south of Stafford - when actually steam has run there more often than many other quieter lines. I think we should be more concerned about capacity for steam on the GWML after the next upgrade there. Anyway FGW over the last couple of years seem to have been more supportive of steam charters, so who knows what might happen?
     
    campainr, 15 aug 2012
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  3. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    I am just wondering, given the premiums they have guaranteed to pay, just how long before they ask to bail out ...
     
    Martin Perry, 15 aug 2012
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  4. malc

    malc Part of the furniture

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    Richard,

    Given the ridiculous Anytime fares that Virgin currently charge (e.g. £296 for a Standard Class Return from Manchester to London), a 15% reduction will mean that the fares are still out of the range for most people (i.e. still over £250 for the previous exampke).
     
    malc, 15 aug 2012
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  5. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Yes but does the average person buy an anytime fare, if so then they only have themselves to blame paying that sort of price... 9.15 ex Manchester returning say 19.40 = £296. 9.35 ex Manchester with same return = £74.20 You pays your money and takes your choice....
     
    RalphW, 15 aug 2012
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  6. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I woulden't panic too much, there's only so much you can do with a limited number of trains which can't be in two places at once, plus at weekends the service will be reduced from the higher frequency in the week.

    Seems to me the main variation First are proposing is new destinations (Shrewsbury, Blackpool (many of which will account for the extra Prestons), it would be extremely difficult to increase what Virgin achieve now with regards to frequency.
     
    david1984, 15 aug 2012
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  7. campainr

    campainr Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately Ralph many passengers don't have a choice of when they travel like rail companies seem to think they do. Nor are many as clued into the system of Anytime/Off-Peak/Advanced and all the nonsense it throws up. Getting the best deals that are out there means knowledge of the system the majority of ordinary passengers don't have.

    :focus: Anyhow extra FirstWestCoast (?) services would want paths on the Fast lines surely, so steam on the slow lines should be unaffected for the most part. Although Brinklow to Nuneaton northbound would probably become close to impossible on a weekday.
     
    campainr, 15 aug 2012
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  8. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

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    First was quoted as saying they would introduce 11 new six-car trains, anyone know what this refers to?

    Ta
    Dave
     
    daveannjon, 15 aug 2012
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  9. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    New short formed Pendolino's to replace Voyagers on Birmingham - Scotland as I understand it.
     
    david1984, 15 aug 2012
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  10. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Also trumpeted loudly on the local news, direct London service from Bolton....Wow just what we've all been waiting for?? OK so a couple of times a day a set my start there and probably then call at Salford, Oxford Road and Piccadilly before starting the journey proper. Hardly an earth shattering important new service.
     
    RalphW, 15 aug 2012
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  11. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think Blackpool and Bolton in particular are just reinstating services that Virgin brushed under the carpet during their tenacy.
     
    david1984, 15 aug 2012
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  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Blackpool service to start Dec 2013 probably a Voyager, with a grand total of 1 service per day, then 5 a day promised when the electrification is completed.
     
    RalphW, 15 aug 2012
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  13. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

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    Heck of a long franchise they've negotiated there Ralph :) :)

    Dave
     
    daveannjon, 15 aug 2012
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  14. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    I think you'll find that the Blackpool trains will go via Preston, Bolton and Piccadilly. First will then alter the timetable of their Blackpool-Manchester Airport services and, possibly, Piccadilly-Euston services.
     
    std tank, 15 aug 2012
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  15. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Any chance that any of these wonderful new services to the NW might condescend to stop at Nuneaton? No one round here will miss Virgin since they wiped us off the map after the WCML upgrade in favour of Wilmslow.
     
    Sheff, 15 aug 2012
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  16. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Wilmslow, yes, money talks. It would be interesting to find out what the usage is!!
     
    std tank, 15 aug 2012
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  17. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

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    Branson's argument seems to be that a lot of the premium payable is loaded in the last few years of the franchise, from which for the sum of ~£260 million First could pull out. Short Pendolinos for Birmingham-Scotland makes sense.
     
    oldmrheath, 15 aug 2012
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  18. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Oops...

    Have you ever travelled on an Edinburgh - Birminham service. Weekend before last, Sunday morning, joined a Voyeger at Haymarket, had a reserved seat but still had to shift a sitter, very near full there and at Carlisle, standing room only... Needs more seats not less.
     
    RalphW, 15 aug 2012
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  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    As long as we don't lose the benefit of clever advance ticketing to Scotland by splitting travel at Preston, I don't mind. But with First now in charge of everything, I suspect that loophole may disappear. Whilst I have no flag to fly for Virgin, I think that Richard Branson is probably spot on with his assessment of the situation and the inability of the Government to see beyond the 'bottom line'. More to the point, the financial market agrees.
     
    Big Al, 16 aug 2012
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  20. Jeff Albiston

    Jeff Albiston Member

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    BBC North West reported on either Tuesday or Wednesday night that the 5 a day service will become operational in 2015/2016.
     
    Jeff Albiston, 16 aug 2012
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