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FR/WHR questions

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by lynton&barnstaple, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. Baldopeter

    Baldopeter New Member

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    You have all missed the point regarding extra services on the WHR. The limiting factor is not loco's or carrs, it is the number of crew needed. Even on a yellow day ( mid season) we need at least six loco, guards, and buffet crew ( total 36 every day). Next week, for instance, there is a shortage of volunteers in all departments. Add one more train and we need another 12 volunteers.

    Any one like to spend four or six weeks a year on either railway, you would be most welcome.

    Regards

    Peter
     
  2. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Thanks for that Peter, crewing is something that is always overlooked on any railway operation including main line workings, and most are volunteers. Are there any age constraints for these jobs?
     
  3. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    I did state that there are two points of view. I remember a few years back talking to a few photographers at Llangelynin who were taking pictures of the Cambrian Coast Express what they were going to do whilst waiting for the return. They had travelled a fair distance to get there photos and set off pretty early.

    The answer I got was they were going staright home. I was slightly surprised considering they were close to numerous
    narrow gauge railways and would drive home past a couple. There response was they had no interest in narrow gauge railways, basically they were little more than inconsequential toys! That to me just illustrates how opinions can differ. I much prefer a seeing say a VoR train running as designed to say a big pacific pulling 8 coahes at 25mph for 10 miles on a preserved line. And would much prefer working on the former.As I said we all have our own point of view. Fairlie pounding along the FR or WHR appeals to me, A Garratt does not. Similarly the Mallett had no appeal but the Hunslets do.
     
  4. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for reminding us of that. I suppose that could also be extended to the workshop folk as well - more locos in service, more maintenance - and also capacity in the workshops.

    Steve B
     
  5. jtx

    jtx Well-Known Member

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    From my experiences of riding, firing and driving on the WHR, if it is indeed a "cock-up," it is on a par with, say, London 2012. The F&WHR management will continue to refine, experiment and modify operations as patterns emerge. Give them time. In the meantime, rejoice that it exists, and, if you don't like it, go somewhere else. Last time I went, travel was optional.
     
  6. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    I don't think I made my point very clearly. Whilst I love the WHR and their NGG16's, I'm also more than happy to visit the FR / VoR / TR etc etc and enjoy what they have to offer too. With all the wonderful variety of steam we are lucky to have on offer in these Isles, it seems odd to me that people want to complain that Railway X, Y or Z shouldn't run this or that loco. Perhaps I'm odd, but to me, steam is steam. I might josh about antediluvian Gas Works Relics, but I've paid good money to travel behind Tyseley's finest, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. So if the NGG's don't float your boat, then maybe just head the other way out of Portmadog?
     
  7. mickpop

    mickpop Resident of Nat Pres

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    A very good point as is that regarding the signalling. I have no vested interest in either of the Welsh Highland Railways and wish them both well however it does occur to me that the 'Heritage' outfit must have a pool of volunteers filling posts as drivers, guards, engineers etc but only a short stretch of line on which to operate. Now it may be that history and personalities may make cooperation a non-starter.I know almost nothing about those matters and have no desire to rake*over the past as there is enough nastiness around as it is. However to the impartial outsider one solution is compelling.
     
  8. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    I never thought you would not. I was merely using the story as an example of how opinions can differ.

    I probably have not made myself 100% cleareither , I would not avoid the WHR because of the Garrats. I was purely reply to a poster who said to them and some enthusiasts the appeal was the Garrats or words to that affect. I was just trying to say that to some of us that is not the case. I will travel on the WHR on occasion in future as part of our holidays just as I would the FR, TR etc. However the Garatts I have said do not really float my boat so when weighing up options I would presently as you said be more likely to travel on the FR. This year we went on the WHR and what tipped the decision to do so was the chance to come back via the Fairlie. We could have as easily done the FR as we needed an hour or so in Port and I fancied using a train to get there and back. Obvioulsy if I fancy a bit of time in Beddgelert, and timetables are favourable, then i would use the WHR whatever steam loco was on the front
     
  9. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    You are probably better off not knowing the history in detail .

    I think we just have to respect that there have been major disagreements in the past and it takes time for the wounds to heal. It's not all bad - there are many people who are actively involved in both WHR's and there would appear now to be willingness on both sides to co-operate, but it will, I'm sure, take time. There is a joint involvement in next week's Hunslet/Quarry event, for example.

    I volunteer on one railway - I like the Garratts and big trains, speaking from the point of view of my personal enthusiasm - they after all are the logical conclusion of what the original FR started - but I quite often visit the other and patronise their excellent shop.
     
  10. Baldopeter

    Baldopeter New Member

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    There is no age limit on volunteering, but for safety critical roles you must pass a medical and eyesight test, and for firing you need to be able to move coal about with gay abandon. The hardest day is on a coal fired double engine, garratts are a bit easier. There are also long days, hence the problem of needing one and 'a half' crew on yellow days, as with prep and disposal you are over 12 hours on the WHR.

    Even guards and buffet crew have long days as they have to clean and service the stock.

    There are some who work on all the railways in Port, there may have been acrimony at the top between managements, but on the ground there have always been levels of co-operation, anyone is free to volunteer where they want.


    Volunteers always welcome, but this railway requires commitment on the lococrew and ops side, and once the bug gets you it is also very addictive, be warned !

    Regards

    Peter
     
  11. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Anyone mind if I actually ask a question? No ranting, just a query. When were the diesel hauled trains on FR taken out of the timetable?

    When I visited a couple of weeks ago on RTC's Welsh Mountaineer, I had a trip from BF to Minffordd and back. The 13.40 from BF was busy, but the 14.35 from Minffordd (14.25 ex Port) was full and standing. I noticed there was quite a gap in the timetable now, no departures from Port between 11.40 and 13.35, or from BF between 13.40 and 15.10. Is there a reason the diesel diagram was removed? Lack of crews, stock or passenger numbers maybe? It seems a bit odd that the first train from BF is now 11.50. Will that change with the rebuilding of Port station?
     
  12. Jark91

    Jark91 Member

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    Sounds like you visited on a yellow timetable day (6 departures each way) whereas they're running blue now (4 each way)... but the second and fifth departures from Port on yellow days are steam diagrams anyway, not diesel.
     
  13. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    Ah, but 4 days out of a 5 day holiday...you see the problem? :)
     
  14. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    I have heard reference to a three day ticket that covers unlimited travel from Caernarfon - Blaenau Ffestiniog, but I cannot find any reference to it on their website. Does such a thing exist?
     
  15. Tim Hall

    Tim Hall Member

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  16. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    Ah so its an Arriva thing...thought it was a FfR/WHR thing. Oops!
     
  17. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    Was thinking about shorter trains on the RHe and it may not be so easy. The current two rakes amount to 18 coaches so mathematically it could be reformed as 3x6 car rakes. But out of each 9 cars, there are four 'specials' - the heritage carriage, the obs/1st class, the open sider, and the combo car. Given that no doubt the management would wish the main service rakes to be interchangeable these need to be found for set 3.

    If we imagine that an obs/1st class and a heritage coach are borrowed from the FR stock (and I don't know if there are enough suitable spares to do that), then still needed are a gangwayed open and a third combo car. Assuming they are built, there is then another problem - you have reduced your normal standard class accomodation from 5 carriages to 2 or 3. Which may have serious effects on profitability - you have less seats, more dead weight per seat, etc. .

    Not saying these things couldn't be resolved but there is more to it than simply a morning's shunting at Dinas!
     
  18. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    ..How about if the FR trains run through to Beddgelert, woudn't this help ?
     
  19. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    Not without splitting the FR sets at Port or double heading everything.
     
  20. 40044

    40044 New Member

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    I believe that one of the reasons for more coaches is to enable the historical coaches to be withdrawn from everyday servce.
     

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