LNWR George the Fifth Steam Locomotive Trust and proposed new build

I wish I could join you and Tom there. It promises to be an enjoyable day. And it'd be great to meet the fellows behind the Patriot build.

 

Plus 6880, and possibly 4709. Maybe llan should have a new build gala next year?? Asthe railmotor is going to be visiting railways that could be the visitor, and have people from the rebuilds, new builds to talk about their projects. May as well invite the sales stands from other new builds such as hengist, 82045, yourselves etc etc etc. It would give people the opportunity to talk about these projects.

 

I think that is a very constructive (!) suggestion. Who is up for organizing it?
Paul

 

Members Tom Mainprize and Paul Hibberd have returned from Llangollen where they manned our humble stall on the 1st and 2nd September. Paul and Tom would like me to express their thanks at the support and invaluable advice given by the team behind the LMS Patriot, not least Gavin (Gav106) who is a regular here (see below). We would also like to thank all the members of the public who made inquiries, expressed their support and who dropped a donation into our tin (or rather paid us a dog-minding fee!) and of course, thanks also to the marvelous people at Llangollen.

We are presently planning our next public event and are in the advanced stages of preparing to fabricate our first part (and no, it's not the nameplates). The trust's blog has been updated with a fuller account of the weekend: A report from the Llangollen Railway Gala » News & Progress on the building of a new LNWR George the Fifth class locomotive

 

The LNWR George the Fifth Steam Locomotive Trust will be manning a stall at the Great Central Gala at Loughborough on the 7th October. If you're going or just happen to be in the area drop by to say hello and have a chat.

 

Just a small reminder that we'll have a stand at the GCR Gala at Loughborough this coming 7th October. We're also at the point of having sufficient funds to begin fabricating our first significant part for a new LNWR George the fifth class. We won't say what which part it is yet (as I've said previously, rest assured it's not the nameplates) but we do expect to be getting quotes soon after Loughborough. Once a fabricator is locked-in we'll let everyone know.

 

The biggest things I have seen to be criticised for on this forum for first parts have been nameplates and smokebox doors. I don't know what other new builds have had as their first parts. I wasn't involved with the patriot back then. Does others on this forum know what other new builds did as their first parts?

 

If you ignore the purchase of Scotsman's second tender frames, the A1SLT got cracking with driving wheels and cylinders. Sponsorship from William Cook Cast Products and money already raised helped pay for these.... a good point to note - they had the means/cash first!

Foxy

 

Hi Gav. I can certainly understand some criticism of nameplates as the first piece to be fabricated as in the end, while it might be a boost to morale for the members and being something identifiable to rally around, they're ultimately not functional parts of a locomotive and therefore not critical. Something like a smokebox door strikes me as something that will have to be fabricated regardless for the engine to function so whether it bears nameplates or not.

I'm sure that if a new-build announced the fabrication of say the chimney, buffer-beam, dome or a safety valve as the first step, it would equally be criticised and yet these are also ultimately necessary parts required to complete an engine and yet permit a newly-formed new-build group to get up to speed with the process with minimal risk and potential waste. Perhaps only cylinder blocks, frames and the casting of wheels really receive any respect yet even then I'm sure there are naysayers who being against new builds, would find reason to criticise.

As you chaps know on the Patriot you have to start somewhere and I'm sure that we'll receive some criticism for our choice however, we looked long and hard at the relative merits of which parts to begin fabricating and we believe that after much deliberation, we've made the correct choice for us. It appears that new builds which already have a significant body of parts at hand (boiler, tender and the like) tend to go for the frames. Others tend to start a little more modestly.

What we can say, irrespective of whether our choice will be criticised or not, we will be joining a small group of new builds that have managed to actually fabricate something tangible and that will go to making a complete locomotive. Few new build proposals can say that.

You've reminded me too, that I promised to make a donation towards the Patriot. I should have some money from work clear next week after which I'll make a contribution to the Patriot. I can't wait to see her!

 

For Beachy Head, the first components were the boiler and tender underframe and wheels, though those were all pre-existing rather than newly built.

The first substantive new components were AFAIK (it pre-dates my membership of the project) locomotive frames and then the patterns for the wheels.

The next major component (and this is food for thought!) was the construction of a purpose-built building in which to continue the project out of the rain. That investment has repaid itself many times over in the speed with which the project has progressed.

Tom

 

I might be wrong but i believe that the H5 commenced with the smokebox (they've recently had the frames fabricated) and the G5 group commenced with building a complete trailing bogie, which served to generate further interest by being displayed at locations such as the NRM. They've since had the frames and boiler fabricated so there doesn't appear to be any one way to go about it and certainly a smokebox door or even a nameplate isn't a indication of the lack of seriousness of intent or planning in the project.

Not to take anything away from the the A1SLT or their achievement but they certainly were in a fortuitous position, having that sponsorship. We don't feel that we're at that stage yet especially given the economic times.

 

Food for thought indeed.

A home for our project is and remains a high priority for us. We're still talking to parties and forging links however nothing concrete to announce at this stage. In any case, at this stage, we're not hamstrung by a lack of a permanent base, however we know that it's something that we'll need to secure in the near future if we're going to house, fabricate and ultimately assemble a collection of parts. Our fabricated parts list for the next 12 months at least will be fairly small.

 

Tom, this is indeed a valid point and it was a sensible action. I feel for the 3MT group, struggling with their newbuild project in the open air. As "old lag" correspondents will be aware, that project seems far more sensible to me than either (forgive me everyone involved) the Marsh Atlantic or the George V but its progress is bound to be delayed by the lack of cover.

Whilst in controversial mode can I suggest the George V is delayed until space presently occupied by either the H2 or Patriot is available. This way something can be completed during our lifetimes! Whilst we are at it, the 3MT should jump the queue IMHO.

Paul H.

 

A colleague of mine in the trust was only recently visiting the SVR (we're all partial to the Coal-tank of course!) and spoke to some of the team on the 3MT. He returned, impressed with the project and their progress despite of the lack of shelter from the elements. Certainly, and I'm sure that they'd be the first to agree that having cover would be ideal however I understand that they have some excellent engineering facilities at the SVR and some real talent and skill on the project. My colleague has no doubt they'll get the job done.

I don't want to speak for the team behind the 3MT but I understand that they're building her for use on the SVR so it's unlikely that they'd be all that interested in basing themselves either in Llangollen or Sheffield Park if ever the space became available (that's a few years away yet in either case). As to us, we're progressing well and we'll take the time needed in finding the right home and an arrangement that's mutually beneficial. We'll be careful to ensure that it'll be the right mutual fit and that our efforts won't risk interference with restoration projects. We're certainly not interested in becoming clutter taking up precious space in some society's workshops. That's no good for anyone.

 

Not going to happen Paul (at least not using Beachy Shed; can't speak for the Patriot). The construction of the building was 80% funded by the Bluebell Trust, on land owned by the Bluebell Railway Preservation Society, on the assumption that it would have a useful life beyond the construction of the Atlantic. While it is too early to say what that use might be, it will certainly be something that fits with the overall objectives of the Bluebell Railway. Another new build is a distinct possibility (they are, after all, explicitly mentioned as projects in the long term plan) but not a LNWR new build, however worthy it might be.

Does go to show the advantages of being attached to a "parent" organisation though. I'm not saying building a new engine independently of a host railway is impossible (afterall, Tornado got built), but the advantages of having a reputable parent organisation are considerable, especially in the early days of a project when your single greatest asset is not a piece of metal, but credibility to get the project off the ground.

Tom

 

The Bluebell is expressly focused on the Southern, it's constituents and BR Southern region steam so an LNWR George being built there would probably have some members of the Bluebell at the very least, scratching their heads. Rightly a few of them would surely be a bit outraged at this 'foreign' engine taking shape in their shed! Of course a friendly visit by a completed George would of course no doubt be something entirely different and we'd welcome the invitation if ever it was extended by the Bluebell. A George and a Brighton Atlantic double-heading would be a sight to see and I hope one day we can make it happen.

Not all preservation societies are quite so focused on a given railway company so we're sure there's a good fit out there and we are casually talking with parties. Our members have fairly extensive connections and are communicating widely. We not perturbed by the lack of a home at this early stage of the project although ideally, we'd of course welcome a partnership and a homebase. Fund-raising and building a membership base, building connections within the preservation movement, spreading the word and tackling the engineering (assessing drawings etc) has been the priorities at this stage and now we're ready to cut our first bit of metal. I have to say that we are a wee bit excited about the prospect and we believe it will help to strengthen our case.

Tom, I hope you lot seriously consider that LBSC Craven after the Atlantic! What a sight she would be!

 

Watch this space (or rather, watch the next draft of the Long Term Plan, due to be debated at next year's AGM).

Tom

 

I'm well excited by the prospect. Given the scarcity of mid-19th engines, not least in operation, she'd be a real drawcard and no doubt useful too in earning her keep for period dramas and the like. (Come on Tyseley, complete the Bloomer!)

 

Sorry to sound irritated but I am increasingly reminded of the words Leonardo da Vinci is supposed to have muttered over and over again in his last years, "Was there anything ever done"! In other words "I never finished anything".

In exasperation.

Paul

 

Maybe so but I don't think old Leonardo did too badly achievements-wise all things considered. I'm mean here we are, more than half a millenium later still talking about the fellow.

We've all only got one fairly short and very finite life. Best to have a go at achieving something while we're on this planet.

Edit: I'm not quite sure what's causing you exasperation Paul. There's every indication and confidence that the Patriot group, the Beachy Head crew, the 3MT crew among others mentioned here (and not mentioned) will complete their new builds. Surely, while it's exasperating for these things to take so long (not least for the people involved), that these teams will surely complete their builds is hardly anything to be irritated about. Quite the opposite I would say.

We're admittedly at a much earlier stage of the journey so as any reasonable betting man would admittedly say it's too soon to make a call definite call about our chances. i won't pretend otherwise. However we're in there with our best shot and with the help of supporters, we think that in a few years time we can be at a stage where we can say that we'll complete our build. Is that the cause of your irritation (that we've a long way to go or that we're quietly confident that we can do it?). Either way I can't help you. Sorry.