71000

Only someone on the outside of "Preservation" could make such a sweeping statement. It isn't Ego and Politics - its passion. And passion makes the heart rule the head.

 

It's both, there is ego and politics and lots of it.. But there is also Passion and lots of it.

 

And I suspect that the biggest problems arise when it is the ego and politics that people get passionate about. None of which may be true in the case under consideration...

Steve B

 

I disagree. Having been involved in "preservation" for more years than I care to remember, I have experienced the passion that's involved but sadly I've also experienced the petty politics that are born of jealousy or even sheer bloody mindedness.

 

You have it in a nutshell, Spamcan.

 

I could not agree more, Spamcan81. In 41 years, I've seen quite a lot of both.

 

Ditto, but in 3 years

 

Having been involved with preservation in the late 1970s I can assure you I do not speak from the "outside of "Preservation"" - but as a victim of "Ego and Politics" at the time, I think I have a little more experience of these than you give credit for and I can also assure you that "passion" had nothing to do with it.
However one of the parties involved was so passionate that he ended up being involved in over 30 court cases over the matter - and that's as much I will say on that particular experience !

 

Having little experience of the business side of preservation, can someone with more knowledge explain why 6233 can have a good mainline career, have amassed enough money for an overhaul that is done in record time and she is back. But the Duke seems to have had a terrible main line career recently. 60009 had problemms but she was sorted and is back. Is it purely the uniqueness of the Duke that causes such engineering headaches or the fact that, I think, all of the engineering work seems to be contracted or is it the back room staff who get it so right or so wrong.

Let me say, this is out of interest and not looking to start a blame game. So anyone who wants to point fingers please don't respond.

 

It basically depends on the infrastructiure supporting the locomotive. Taking your specific locomotives :

6233 is owned by a group which promotes its own railtours hence ALL the profit goes to support the locomotive, whilst the charters operated for other TOCs provide a further measure of income. Against this must be set the maintenance cost and that AIUI is quite meticulous and undertaken at intervals which ensures the locomotive is in tip top condition.

60009 is owned by a millionaire who is extremely modest but currently has the money to "do what it needs" to remain in operational main line condition. The main income comes from charters but I understand that whilst this income covers the cost of operations (including maintenance) it does NOT cover the cost of 10-yearly overhauls which comes out of the owner's personal income.

71000 is owned by a group of enthusiasts who need income from charters to fund the locomotive's maintenance, operation and 10-yearly overhauls but any additional expenses (such as the ongoing renewal of Caprotti cams) has to be met from charter income as the owners / group do not have the personal funds to cover it. In essence 71000 will be repaired only once the funds become available - either through loans against future income or donations from supporters.

May I add that each locomotive owning group has its own financial arrangements which are confidential hence the above is a personal understanding of the supporting financial situation and I apologise in advance if I have got any facts wrong.

 

I think you are dead right, it gets harder all the time.

It is a great shame about 71000, it is a Fab loco. Really hope the problems can be sorted.

 

Fred

Thank you for that. Really interesting.

So, noting your caveat, would you say that 6233 have got the best model of how to make it work also noting keith6233's comments above?

Thanks again.

 

Not necessarily as it really is a case of "Horses for Course". When I was involved with this subject in the early days of diesel preservation (mid-1970s) our group was one of the early pioneers and had to "write the rule book" and many options were considered. The chosen option of basing operations on a heritage line and not looking for main line operation - although locomotoives are maintained as far as is possible to main line standards - has proved the best long term option and the group and its fleet have a well deserved reputation within the heritage movement.

The same principles will apply to steam locomotive preservation where the options for one locomotive may not suit another and it is the combination of resources (finance, expertise, running opportunities, charter availability, fund-raising etc) that will decide which options are best for any owner.

A case in point is Ian Riley who is well known for his annual locomotive checks supported by regular maintenance to a specific standard that suits his locomotive usage but his standards and principles of maintenance may not be applicable to other locomotive owners with different resources and levels of expertise.

So in direct answer to your question - 6233 has the best arrangement for 6233 using arrangements that could be less suitable for other locomotives.

 

If id a choice of spending £3 Million squids on overhauling a loco. it would be this one not the ( dont mention the scots engines...) erm other one

 

Do we actually know officially what the current problem with the Duke is ?

 

It has just been put under cover at Eastleigh awaiting an official inspection (SOURCE: 71000 Twitter feed)

James at SVN

 

Thanks to my request, you can now donate to the trust on the website:

71000 Duke of Gloucester

 

71000 was moved from Eastleigh Depot to Eastleigh Works yesterday afternoon. Gen from "Fregbert" on WNXX Forum.