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80078

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Steve1015, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. Steve1015

    Steve1015 Member

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    Time has been know to heal the wounds
     
  2. Pugwash

    Pugwash New Member

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    Would that shareholder have been Swanage Railway by any chance?
     
  3. nickt

    nickt Member

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    It was a private individual, now deceased.
     
  4. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    Proberley already reported, but 80078 has now left Swanage. She dispaeared from the siding at Corfe when I passed through on ticket inspecting duties last Tuesday. I don't think it has gone down well.

    Other news all the working engines seem to be fine apart from the M7 which due to go a Intermediate overhaul.
     
  5. stephenvane

    stephenvane Member

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    Whilst SLL had every legal right to sell 80078, morally it's very wrong. 80078 was the first loco to arrive at the Swanage Railway in the 1970s, and to just sell it like that without giving the SR a chance to bid. I mean what are they thinking? The Swanage railway has been very good to SLL, giving them a home base, and paying them thousands over the years for hiring their locos.

    SLL really risk alienating themselves from the SR now. At the moment the Swanage railways needs SLL locos to run it's services. But in a few years, when new facilities are built at Furzebrook, many other loco owners will be tempted to base their locos there. So if more suitable class 4/5 locos arrive on the line, the Swanage Railway will be more interested in running these than SLLs vast collection of Bulleids. When this time comes, I think SLL could well find themselves homeless because of what they have done with 80078.
     
  6. Rumpole

    Rumpole Part of the furniture

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    80078 was moved from Corfe to Norden last Thursday. During the afternoon the lorry arrived at Norden, and it was due to leave Thursday night/Friday morning; certainly by the first train last Friday it had gone.

    53 was tripped from Swanage to Norden this morning and delivered by road to Herston Works for intermediate overhaul at around 11am.
     
  7. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    Who owns the locos that SLL looks after. Are they owned by all the shareholders or are they owned by individuals within SLL? The only reason I ask is because you hear a group own a loco but when you dig deeper you find it isn't owned by the group it's owned by an individual within the group.

    Thanks
     
  8. cct man

    cct man Part of the furniture

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    With reference to your second sentence of the second paragraph about the Swanage needing SLL Locomotives at the moment sums it up for me.

    It ids done because they can get away with it IMHO,it is all about control though as you say SLL may well have shot themselves in the foot on this one.

    Best regards
    Chris:
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    That's a bit presumptive, isn't it? Do you have any evidence to support the statement? Locos of Class 5 and below are always at a premium on heritage railways and are rarely looking for a home.
     
  10. nickt

    nickt Member

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    I've been asked to clarify a couple of points:

    The Swanage Railway knew at the highest level about the proposed sale of 80078. The buyer made initial contact with a senior officer of the Swanage Railway, and the railway was involved in inspection visits over a period of several months. At no time did the railway indicate they might wish to buy the loco. Perhaps, like SLL, they consider that having it overhauled by a third party with the possibility of returning to active service at Swanage is a good solution.

    Over the years SLL's shareholders have invested over two million pounds in restorations and overhauls; this is far more than has been received in leasing fees.

    All of the locos in our fleet are indeed owned by Southern Locomotives Ltd; none are "managed" by SLL on behalf of other owners.
     
  11. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    No working standard gauge steam locomotive would be homeless for very long in the current climate.. If Swanage didn't want them, another line would, 34053 demonstrated that.
     
  12. Pugwash

    Pugwash New Member

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    Its not the locomotives that that would find themselves homeless. No doubt they would be snapped up. I think what stephenvane is probably referring to is that SLL themselves may find them selves without a roof over their heads.

    SLL's engineering operation is 'hosted' by Swanage Railway. Herston Works is leased by Swanage Railway and as part of the locomotive hire agreement Swanage provide the engineering works to SLL (in addition to the normal hire fees). This is perhaps why the casual observer might expect SLL's restoration priorities to be a little more inline with Swanage Railways needs. What is the point in Swanage paying for a facility for an independent company to restore locomotives for use on other railways?

    It was very philanthropic of Swanage to pay for the facility in which SKP was restored, particularly as I'm sure that Swanage will not be benefiting from the hire fees that SLL receive from 34053? Swanage also provides free storage for Sydmouth and 78.

    Perhaps its time that Swanage were a little less 'giving' to SLL and focused on development of its own assets rather than dissipating its resources in to a locomotive restoration organization with which the long term future looks increasingly uncertain.

    If Swanage were to decide to source their locos from others, then Herston works would be needed for those others to maintain them. Whilst I'm sure there are plenty of railways that would be pleased to take the locos, how many have room to give the SSL engineering operation a new home?

    These are clearly just my personal views.
     
  13. Pugwash

    Pugwash New Member

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    Over the years Swanage Railway Supporters have given millions in trust membership fees, donations, legacys and voulenteer labor to construct the railway. The Railways fare income is insufficient on its own to maintain and expand the railway.

    Such is the nature of preservation. What is the point you are trying to make?
     
  14. Pugwash

    Pugwash New Member

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    I have heard that when Swanage made inquires some time ago as to how much SLL wanted for 78 the price quoted was completely unrealistic, nearly 4 times the eventual sale price. A bit rude given that I hear that Swanage virtually gave 78 to SLL some years back.

    I'm wondering if Swanage were given first refusal when the sale price became realistic?
     
  15. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Most groups that became part of SLL lose the control of their engines, i know the people who purchased 34028 , they lost all control of her once they joined SLL, and i would guess the same goes for all the others Sll could sell it and the original owners would not be in any position to stop the sale, this is what happened with 80078 I didnt know that SLL dont own their workshop, they keep very quite about that, and that they are allowed to use it only because of the Swanage railway give them space. They could have set up a site at Selinge plans were drawn up for workshop buildings but never came to anything prefering to rely on the swanage railway instead to me this seems very strange a bit like a cookoo you get in someone elses nest, take it over and then let them pay the overheads
     
  16. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Anyone know where 80078 has gone ?
     
  17. Ruston906

    Ruston906 Member

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    I'm wondering if Swanage were given first refusal when the sale price became realistic?[/QUOTE]
    I am guessing the railway would not off had the money to meet any sales price there is not a realistic price only what somebody will pay for it you could not expect the SLL to sell it to SR for a lower price than they have been offer by a third party when the point of the sale is to raise money. The railway seem to have known the loco was for sale and have made the decision not to put in a offer.
     
  18. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    The railway was probally never going to be in the possition that it could have purchased 80078 anyway, this should have been on the minds of swanage railway trust years ago, that if SLL had to sell any of its and the railways engines that this could happen, they most likily thought, they would never do that, in some ways its a wake up call to any railway that relies on one organisation for most of its fleet, what if the drummond group had joined SLL, or if all swanage engines were owned by SLL? Its not a heathy place to be
     
  19. flaman

    flaman Well-Known Member

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    See post #62.
     
  20. nickt

    nickt Member

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    Whoever gave you that information is either grossly misinformed or being mischievous. The structures of the arrangement discussed with the railway in 2011, and the recent deal with the buyer were different, but the bottom line prices were very similar.

    It was Swanage Railway's decision, made shortly before Sir Keith Park was ready for service, to stick with Eddystone and Manston and to permit SKP to be leased elsewhere. The agreement between Swanage Railway covers the leasing of locos, their maintenance, and the use of Herston Works. It is a normal business arrangement where there are advantages to both sides.

    Yes indeed, both parties have invested a huge amount of time and money to create a great heritage line with a good fleet of locos. Where else can you see two Bulleids in action? The point is that no one gets rich from loco restoration, and that after more than 20 years of work our locos have earned less than half of what it cost us to restore them.

    Groups with one loco chose to join SLL because we had the resources to complete restorations in a timely way. Result: 34028 Eddystone is running happily on the Swanage Railway and can look forward to a timely overhaul when it comes out of service in a few years time. It is no secret that we use the Swanage Railway's facility at Herston: Southern Locomotives Ltd | Facilities We to chose concentrate our restoration work at Swanage a few years ago for several reasons; three of our locos were in use there, it suited most of our staff, and - not least - we could work with a roof over our heads and not in an open field.

    So right now we are engaged in the restoration of 34072 257 Squadron so that it can have a further 10 years of operation on the Swanage Railway. If you would like to help us to return this flagship loco to service you would be warmly welcomed. We have a volunteer session next Thursday and Friday. Please PM me if you would like to come along.
     

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