LMS brake van restoration

At Barrow Hill Roundhouse we are doing up a 20 ton brake van we have replaced some of the rottern planks on the side and have welded new metal on the ends. We started painting it in freight brown paint did they have the big LMS on the side if they are brown

 

One of my Hornby ones does but that doesn't mean a thing!

 

Depends on when it was built. What is it's number?

 

If its in brown it should have small LMS. Hope this helps. Ray

 

The works plate had on it 730687 so about 1940 time and here a photo of how it going

 

LMS goes in the bottom LH corner.

 

You need to contact Tim Oaks at Ecclesbourne Valley Railway he is doing one up

 

I have Tims private E-Mail address if this man will pm me ?.

Regards
Chris:

 

I think I met him at Barrow Hill when we were working on the brake van and the one at Ecclesbourne is grey I think I could be wrong

 

See the other LM brakevan thread on this forum. I get over to Barrow Hill around once a month to work on Vulcan, as can be seen the Barrow Hill lads are doing a great job. Mine will be grey, and restoration can occasionally be seen live on the Wirksworth Midddle Yard webcam. Next Vulcan working party is 16th Sept and I hope to be there, though Mick T. has been muttering about other plans. Woody, it is about time you escaped and got your boots on again.

Tim

 

I know Tim

 

I had the pleasure of inspecting progress on the Barrow Hill brake van on Sunday and it is looking very good, latest work appears to be the fitting of smart new footboards. Next to it was an LMS design van which looks to be in the early stages of a thorough restoration. B-H seem to be building up the basis of a vintage freight train.

Tim

 

I have got a problem with LMS or LMS/BR Brake Van at Barrow hill we doing up, and had some new work plates made but the only problem was we only had this number 730687 and LMS wrote on it as the old work plates were missing.
So this is the problem when the new plates came it said Derby 1960 and it' 22 tons did BR build any LMS Brake Vans ? I but the number in google it say's it's a Derby 1940 20 ton brake van so I don't know if the internet is wrong or the plates are wrong Help

 

BR did build some LMS BVs.
These are the type with roof over the full length with verandas at both ends.
Lot 2025 Derby 1557 numbered 950000 -950124 between Oct 1950 and Jan 1951 this batch fitted.
Lot 2026 Derby 1558 numbered 950125 - 950249 built June - Oct 1950 this batch unfitted.

Some earlier BVs were built with the short roof with exposed deck area outside the verandas.
731743 - 745 built 1944 these vehicles went one to each of the 4 companies. LMS, GWR etc

Detail from Eric Gents book.
British Railways Brake Vans and Ballast Ploughs.1999 published by HMRS
ISBM 9-780902 835160

 

A yes confusing answer would be "yes, it looks as though your plates are wrong".

The 7xxxxx series vans were built by the LMS.

For comparison, 730403/459/562 (D1919) were built in 1938. 730767/794/799 (D2036, as is yours) were all built in 1940. So 1940 sounds about right for yours.

Should be 20T by the way.

 

So the work plates should say M730687 ,Derby 1940, 20Ton, Lot xxxx but I don't know what the lot numbers are yet. Thank you for the help

 

It shouldn't say M - that was a BR prefix. And I don't think the LMS put lot numbers on their plates. Best to find a photo of a similar plate for comparison. I think the font may differ from the BR style too.

At least you know the number of your LMS vehicle, I have a van built in 1934 and have only managed to pin it down to one of 1,996 vehicles (less a handful known to be preserved) - I was pretty lucky to find a date - replica plates are some way off! But I do know that on this van, the lot number would have been on a separate (much smaller) plate. I assume the same practice continued into 1940 and applied to brake vans.

'The LMS Wagon' by Essery & Morgan lists all of the lot numbers and build numbers, where known. This vital detail is missing from Essery's later 2-volume set 'An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons', but those books have more photos. All 3 are kind of essential for researching these vehicles.

 

I've got as far as fitting replacement door locks to my brake van at Wirksworth. The funny thing is that the locks seem to stiffen up when bolted on to the van. They worked OK before, and I've drilled out the hole for the handle shaft a bit so I'm fairly sure it is not binding.

For those who have not see one of these vans, they have a twist handle on the inside and a short lever on the outside which is usually pretty stiff and which I always assumed was to stop children getting in.

I have a theory that the bolts may be bending the lock body in some way, causing it to tighten up. has anyone else come across this? The locks were oiled and relatively freely moving before being bolted on.

Tim