Liverpool Road and the Ordsall Curve.

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

The artist impression shews it crossing *over* the top of the old line, to my old eyes anyway. No, I don't know the area but that's what the picture tells me anyway.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

I had a look with Google Earth and Street View and the elevations looked feasible to me as the museum line was much lower even though it itself was also elevated over Water St (both the two bridges).

But I bow to your local knowledge of course.

I wonder why EH or MOSI have said nothing?

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

The artist has left a slightly misleading impression by putting a train on top of the proposed new chord which creates the illusion of the new line looking like a continuous viaduct. But it isn't. If you look at the edge of the proposed new track you can see it has parapets along most of its length either side of the MOSI tracks but there is a gap in the parapets on both sides where the new line severs the MOSI tracks. No bridge or viaduct is proposed at this point, therefore no parapets.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

all on the same level.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

GWR4707 My apologies. This is what was meant ie oldest railway carrying skew arch bridge.

Duncan

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Thanks to you and miff for putting me right. What's that 'snow landslide shelter' supposed to be on the opposite side then? It is really very sloppy as I imagine this is what they are shewing the poor punters who turn up for the display events. My rhetorical question, begun by John Stewart remains, why is MOSI not protesting?

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Would someone who has visited the exhibition of proposals care to post their views? I will be going next Tuesday.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Probably the result of discussions with Network Rail and a certain degree of pragmatism, there's very little choice when it comes to the alignment of the link.

Chris

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

These links show the proposed alignment and some options that were looked at but not followed up.

I think they should have gone for the "Short Chord Flyover" option.

There are rendered cgi images of the other two rejected options but none that I could see of the Short Chord Flyover option

If anyone goes to the displays could they make a point of asking why there is no cgi image of the Short Chord Flyover option


http://www.ordsallchord.co.uk/images/downloads/AppendixB_Initial_Alignment_Options.pdf

http://www.ordsallchord.co.uk/images/downloads/AppendixC_Preferred_Alignment.pdf

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

I don't see why there would be, it's not the option being proposed. It would be interesting to know the estimated costs of the other options however, especially the quadrupling/double decking of the Castlefield Corridor which is always being proposed by people as a possible solution.

Chris

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

To be fair the quadrupling of the Castlefield corridor is needed on both cases as part of the Northern Hub.

To answer the question about MoSI, as a volunteer, in Network Rails words, "The Plans -Place a serious constraint on the current operation of the MoSI railway lines. Discussions remain ongoing with the museum to determine the optimum solution"

In light of the above point, and someone who will be involved in discussions, I do not wish to put such discussions at risk by stating my opinions on the current proposal here. If anything official is released on the Museums stance in the press I will post a link through to this forum.

For those planning to visit the consultation there is plenty to see and not all of it is available on the website. Please also remember feedback can be left on the proposals on the website.

Kind Regards

Duncan

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Of the three options which were looked at but not taken forward the Short Chord Flyover seemed the most feasable and least costly.
They produced cgi pictures of the other two options which are available to view.
When you see these images it seems reasonable not to go ahead with them.

However it strikes me as strange that they didn't bother to display cgi pictures of the Short Chord Flyover.

The feedback form at the display asks
Q2 "Do you have any comments on the preferred alignment for the scheme?"
Q3 "which of the structural forms do you prefer?" (Bridge A or Bridge B)

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Just out of interest, have passenger figures ever been released of the number of passengers using these services between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport and back. I travel on the Liverpool to Manchester Airport service, to Piccadilly, quite a lot. It is always lightly loaded on departure from Piccadilly to the Airport. Is it cost effective to run all these Airport services, or are they trying to justify building the Airport station?
I notice that there is no direct service from Birmingham to Manchester Airport. You have to change from a service to Liverpool at Crewe and get on a Manchester local train. Seems odd to me.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

They added an extra platform at Manchester Airport a couple of years ago and appeared to be expanding it again when I was there in September. Somehow I don't think they'd be spending all that money if the traffic didn't justify it. It seemed to me that it is the starting point for a lot of cross- country trains some of which don't go into or through Picadilly. Ray.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

I'm not an expert on domestic and international aviation routes but does Manchester Airport offer a wider variety of destinations compared to Birmingham International?

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

When you refer to 'cgi pictures' i presume you mean the alignment options overlaid onto OS maps previously linked to? As far as i can see the short chord option is included, but only the second option as described on page 11 of the 'section 42 pack' presumably because it's the only one that's workable.

Chris

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Funding has been confirmed for a fourth platform at the airport, a Metrolink extension is already under construction and it's likely that a HS2 station will be announced before Christmas so the airport, and the area as a whole, is certainly on the up - passenger numbers have almost doubled since 2004/5 to nearly 3 million.

While lightly loaded trains to the airport might seem hard to justify, most (if not all) are through services via central Manchester so they have to have enough capacity for both traffic flows. Its not far anyway, and airport passengers will always prefer direct services especially if they have luggage.

Chris

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

No I do not mean the alignment options overlaid onto OS maps previously linked to.

These were Images that look like photograhs.
one showed Oxford Road in Manchester with the Present bridge and a double height Viaduct(this related to the "Long Chord option")
another showed the same location with Oxford Road completely blocked by a Street level alignment(this related to the "Tunnel option")

Here are links to other cgi pictures to give you an idea of what I mean

Network Rail media information for journalists and the press - Gallery - Ordsall Chord - Network Rail media information for journalists and the press

Network Rail media information for journalists and the press - Gallery - Ordsall Chord - Network Rail media information for journalists and the press

Network Rail media information for journalists and the press - Gallery - Ordsall Chord - Network Rail media information for journalists and the press

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

I see what you mean, none of them are online as far as i can tell. I guess they didn't think it was worth doing/showing one for the short chord option as it wouldn't really illustrate the problems with it - cost, disruption, gradients and it's impact on the areas being regenerated aren't half as obvious as a huge double deck viaduct or a tunnel ramp cutting through Oxford Road.

Chris

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Just a reminder that consultation feedback closes in the next couple of days.

Duncan