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LMS Hughes Crab 42859

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by SpudUk, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Re: L.m.s Crab 42859

    Not necessarilly as simple as that. I have no idea about the circumstances of this particular situation, but its by no means unusual, for example, that storage conditions, including open storage, may include the right to take possession and sell, quite possibly for scrap, if bills go unpaid. Its a frequent cause of the demise of old boats and cars for instance. Should there be any change left after the item has been scrapped it has to be returned to the original owner, but the way storage bills tend to mount up there rarely is by the time the organisation renting get round to taking action. And depending on the small print on the original agreement, if there are large unpaid bills then the original owner may well have lose the right to take anything away, even if they turn up with the cash for the unpaid bills now. To all intents and purposes you can lose possession just by not paying storage bills - read the small print on the terms and conditions on a motor garage repair agreement and you'll probably see an example.
     
  2. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Re: L.m.s Crab 42859

    So maybe someone needs to approach the landlord with the items true value, and they may think differently of the scrap value. I doubt the landlord or a visual look by a scrappie will detect that inside that knackered boiler is a firebox full of copper for a start. It sounds like krzeszowice, Poland, where the custodian of a local railway collection scrapped the collection bit by bit each week for several years.. Until there was about a 1/3 of it left..
     
  3. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    Re: L.m.s Crab 42859

    I don't want to be all cynical, but I suspect that might have the opposite effect to the one intended. If the landlord has a reasonable entitlement to the remains, and realises that it's worth a lot of money (to someone, anyone) it'll be a lot trickier to extract it from the site if there have been problems with e.g. rent. Possession being nine tenths and all that…

    Simon
     
  4. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Re: L.m.s Crab 42859

    Well advertised!! You never know who is reading these threads. Think before you post.
     
  5. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    baloney, if a scrappie is reading the forum, then he already knows his stuff, otherwise he's no good at his job..
    If the lanlord has taken possession and is scrapping it.. Then he needs to read this forum to realise his mistake

    If the owner is reading, he needs to see people want to help.

    Secrets and lies at this point will only see the outcome get worse
     
  6. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    Steady on chaps. I highlighted a possible scenario which is completely and utterly speculative in an attempt to suggest it was unwise to go blaming one organisation without evidence. That doesn't mean you should go creating an internet witch hunt in another direction.

    Human as it is to want to rush round and do something/anything in a bad situation, I have never in my years on this planet come across a bad situation that couldn't be made worse by random people making unfounded claims based on gossip and speculation. If you don't know what the right thing to do is then its always better to do nothing than to do the wrong thing for the sake of doing something.
     
  7. Orion

    Orion Well-Known Member

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    This post is going to be controversial, but why should the railway enthusiast community support the owner? It seems to me that he has done very little to restore or preserve the engine and any contributions he receives to do just that will simply enhance his bank balance by adding to his personal wealth. Even if the engine is restored as a consequence of these contributions he will still be the sole owner of a then very valuable engine.

    Now if the ownership of the engine were transferred to a preservation society with charitable status that would be a very different matter, but as things stands now I think it's best to stay away from this one.

    Regards
     
  8. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    Lets be even more controversial! Is any preserved steam engine really very valuable beyond the scrap value of the metal? Given a Barry wreck you spend at least a medium grade nobleman's ransom on restoring it, even if you manage to put together a decent volunteer labour force. You then have ten years to run it, and, if given a decent size volunteer labour force, you might even make some kind of profit on the maintenance overheads. At the end of that its now time for a junior nobleman's ransom to be spent on overhauling it again. Lets face it, as far as I can see using £5 pound notes to burn in your central heating is probably a steadier financial proposition. Haven't several people demonstrated that the best way to make a small fortune in steam locomotive preservation is to start with a large one? So are you really adding to anyone's personal wealth by supporting a preservation project they own? Frankly I doubt it.
     
  9. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    A guy I work with will, on most nights, pour five or more pints of bitter down his throat. The following night, when all that alcohol has dissipated, he'll repeat the process. I think he's wasting his time and money, but he enjoys it and is happy doing it. Who am I to query it?

    There is a big difference between cost and worth.
     
  10. Austerity

    Austerity Member

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    Quite right 2968 - there are many single owner locos out there- steam and diesel which are supported by other, unpaid, committed individuals-because they are happy to do it...because they like doing it. Each to their own.
     
  11. tobes3803

    tobes3803 Member

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    Seems a bit vindictive to me, surely they could have sold it to someone who wasnt going to scrap it?
     
  12. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    Is there any thing left of the tender? The lms patriot still needs two axle boxes and other spares would be helpful. Do you know the scrap dealer to try calling them?
     
  13. MAPLE CHRIS

    MAPLE CHRIS Member

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    Who would of bought it there are numerous locos for sale at the moment in far better condition than the crab was for which there have been no takers Sad to hear its been scrapped but sounds like the landlord gave plenty of notice cant really blame him.
     
  14. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    I am very concerned with the "tone" of the reply it sounds vindictive certainly, and the owner of the site, must have known the true value of the loco was as oppossed to the scrap value, unless the exercise was to gain a quick profit from selling the scrap,regardless of what was right.
    to say that the engine was not restorable, shows a lack of knowledge of steam engines, one thing is that now, it probally is not restorable because it no longer exsists, this is not like a boat, where it would have been too expensive to restore , No my view is that the owner of the site knew what he was doing, and it was designed to cause the maximum distress to the owner of the loco who ever this person is, (the owner of the site ) the steam community has connections in high circles surely can't his business activities be looked into, it hardly sounds like the actions of a law abiding person
     
  15. New Build Steam

    New Build Steam New Member

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    Do we actually know this?
     
  16. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    I don't know what's going on, or what the truth is. But I was a site owner who had been trying to clear a site for years, and if I was just fed up with the whole problem and wanted get shot of it, then I'm quite sure what I'd do is call in a scrap merchant and have the problem dealt with quickly. The last thing I'd want to do is to get into the whole palaver of trying to find someone who wanted to buy the obstruction, and then wait for them to get organised enough to actually move it. That would feel like a whole bunch of hassle that I just wouldn't need. It would be the quick easy solution every time.
     
  17. YoungRailwayMan

    YoungRailwayMan Member

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    has 42859 actually been scrapped
     
  18. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    Welcome to the real world. Something like this has been coming. As much as it pains me as an enthusiast to see one of only 3 of a certain classed scrapped. The owner was given 3 years to move out. But I'm with the landlord. He wants to make money off the land he OWNS. Its not some dirty back hand scrap deal.
     
  19. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    It's a great shame that this loco has become collateral damage in the dispute between its owner and his landlord. Maybe if the owner had actually bothered to offer it for sale before things got to this stage........
    As YRM asked does anyone know,first hand,if all parts have been disposed of?
    I'm particularly thinking of the cylinders as they are sometimes left at the bottom of the heap (as at Briton Ferry) and could be of use to NRM as,IIRC, 42700 was withdrawn due to steamchest problems. Just a thought. Ray.
     
  20. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Re: LMS Crab 42859

    My understanding from those who have been trying to see the engines remains in the yard are that they are not especially friendly
     

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