LMS 2P 4-4-0

Not so sure "we" do know that alas! Hence all these proposals to build engines which are both too high in the wheel for heritage railway use and too small to haul a really paying load on the ever decreasing (so I fear) opportunities on the main line.

 

a 2P would be one of the few new builds which has a chance of making money from photo charters etc. The livery choices are very many and I could see a good few paying to see a 2P piloting a Black 5 or 4F in Somerset or Norfiolk It would have a huge following compared to a Clan or a George V (which would be nice to have but the number of fans would be limited)

Wheel size was never an obstacle to it tackling the Mendips , so I don't see it being an issue on a preserved line

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that the larger wheel MR 2Ps were preferred on the SDJR. The later LMS ones did very good work on the Glasgow and South Western lines, although spoilt a bit in later LMS days by removal of the cylinder bypass valves which made them very free running when coasting.

Dave

 

The idea that big wheels make a loco unsuitable for heritage railways is a misconception. A steam loco has to start its load from standstill and produces max torque at minimum speed. Big wheels are needed to go fast but do not preclude going slow. Indeed, you could argue that it will wear out more slowly as rubbing speeds are slower and the number of cycles less for the same task.

if you are designing a loco that doesn't need to go fast then you wouldn't use big wheels but that is an entirely different matter.

 

With the proviso that if enough people want to build a particular locomotive, and are willing to finance it, or have a viable plan to obtain that finance, then who am I to object? However I do wonder why a 2P rather than other examples of that wheel arrangement. E S Cox in 'Locomotive Panorama' comments that 'even the most rabid Midlandite could not but acknowledge that the Class 2 engine was not very bright' and that ' there was no sting in its performance'. He finds the steam ports and valves wanting and points out that the ex- Midland engineer Clayton who transferred to the SE & C Rly did wonders in that department with their 4-4-0s that lead to their very satisfactory performance on South Coast boat trains. As a Northerner I don't know what I am doing supporting anything Southern so maybe a Caledonian 4-4-0 would be another worthy alternative.

 

Again why? - there is a McIntosh "Dunalister II" 4-4-0 (a copy of the Caledonian design built by Neilson Reid for the Belgium State Railways) already preserved in Belgium!

Similarly I think anyone who wants to see an 2P 4-4-0 should get a cheap flight ticket to Northern Ireland and see "Dunlace Castle" in the Ulster Folk & Transport Museum at Cultra.

G.

 

But Dunlace Castle was never in BR livery was it. Of course that's just me being rather cynical! :tongue1:

 

Or perhaps a George the Fifth... LMS class 3 and a new-build project about to cut metal.

David

 

A good choice and seems a viable project.

 

"Similarly I think anyone who wants to see an 2P 4-4-0 should get a cheap flight ticket to Northern Ireland and see "Dunlace Castle" in the Ulster Folk & Transport Museum at Cultra"

The fact that a group of people spent a large sum of money/time/blood/sweat etc to build an A1 when they could of gone and looked at an existing A2 shows there is a great deal of attraction in having an actual machine and not just settling for something similar.

Ex S&D fireman Peter Smith in his excellent book 'Mendips Enginemen' writes about the 2P's in high esteem. He believed the original Midland versions to be almost as good as the later LMS versions, and recalls them hauling 8 coaches plus a couple of milk tanks over the line.

 

Dunluce Castle!


Keith

 

a great museum, well worth the airfare

 

Well, that is nice to see. Thanks for posting.

 

Beautiful lets get it back on the rails running double headed with a Jub or a Scot Please

 

have to do a few track mods for that...or a drastic rebuild of one or the other....

 

Indeed!

Mark

 

Wouldnt be as drastic as some locos that have cost a considerable amount no names no pack drill

 

Yes that would be a good choice double headed with Merlin of course I would spend a week at least over there for that