LMS 2P 4-4-0

No85 is a possibility for a return to action later this year.

No800 - no chance for steaming in the forseeable future - too heavy for most routes, and therefore uneconomic to restore/run.

No74 was looked at some time ago by the RPSI when a benefactor had offered to pay for the overhaul, but she was found to need very extensive repairs, including at least one new wheel centre and from memory a new boiler barrel or possibly boiler including firebox, new tender tank in addition to the 'normal' expense of an overhaul.

It is believed that most of the locos in the UFTM are in a similar condition - they were given nice paint jobs by the UTA before handover to the Belfast Transport Museum, but the paint just covered over the true condition of very tired locos.


Keith

 

thats a pretty accurate assessment as far as I can see surfing the net.

It is possible 800 is the best condition as she was taken out of service before she was worn out (802 lasted another couple of years on pilot and pick up goods work) but she wont be short of a major rebuild and would be restricted to the Dublin Cork mainline for which she was built. Tragic locos, built immediately before WW2 and then limited after it by coal shortages, only to be eclipsed by early dieseliation (steam being eradicated on CIE MUCH earlier than in the UK) never really got to prove themselves.

excuse for a picture

 

Thanks for the info Keith ,that is a shame last heard about Merlin they were in the process of an examination so doesnt look good then.

 

Meant to say doesnt look good for 800

 

No800 has never been seriously considered for a return to steam


Keith

 

Dunluce Castle might look like a 2P but that's where the similarity ends, as suggested it appears to be knackered anyway, and a 5'3 loco is totally useless outside Ireland so worthless to the UK scene, if it was made operational it would certainly be a nice additional to the Irish preservation scene, but you just can't pretend it's heading over the S&D when it's on broad gauge track with black & orange stock.

I agree with most other people on the idea of a new build 2P, it's a reasonable proposition for heritage line use where loads fall into the medium bracket, but I would like to see some of the existing schemes finished before announcing new ones, 20 odd unfinished builds around the country just takes up valuable workshop space without adding anything to a Railways running.

 

Sorry - I know what you are trying to say, but I really will have to correct you there - No74 resides in N.Ireland which IS part of the UK!
It is also not correct to say that if it was restored it would only operate with 'black & orange' stock - the RPSI have 3 mainline sets - the laminates (light green livery), the Cravens (RPSI blue livery) and the MK2s (RPSI dark green livery).
The RPSI also operated 2 rakes of wooden bodied coaches in original (mostly maroon) liveries until fairly recently, and although these can no longer be used in N.Ireland due to regulations, a few of them are still used in the RoI on RPSI trains.

Keith

 

Was there ever some LMS influence in Ireland at the time these locos were built, only 800 looks like a rebuilt scot, Dulunce Castle like a 2P, and then there's a Fowler 2-6-4 lookalike I've seen too. Or did our modern copyright & litigation culture just not exist back then...

 

The NCC was formed by the Midland Railway taking over the Belfast and Northern Counties Railway in 1903, and it became part of the LMS at grouping. So, yes...!

Steve B

 

Fair point Keith, UK Mainland then, my knowledge of the Irish scene is limited.

 

I would recommend that you read "The LMS in Ireland" by Mark Kennedy, Midland Publishing, 2000, ISBN 85780 097 4.

 

Irish and British rail history is indivisibly linked and a visit to Cultra would open closed doors to many "UK" enthusiasts. My own interest stems from by a David and Charles paperback on the County Donegal many many years ago that would delight most enthusiasts (on a par with Rolt's Railway Adventure in the same series although a completely different story.

 

Later this month, perhaps, when i have the time. Or access to the book :smile:

 

Not seen that one but look out for 'NCC Saga -The LMS in Northern Ireland' by R M Arnold published by David and Charles in 1973. This gives a very personal account not only of individual locomotives but also the personalties who drove and fired them including their particular idiosyncracies. A 'must' for any driver or fireman on a preserved railway. The last years of steam are recorded in great detail with accounts of which locos were overhauled, stored, withdrawn and sometimes ressurrected plus the arrival of the ex Great Northern locos when that system finished with steam. One of the best accounts of a working railway I've ever read.

 

I was told 74's condition was arrived at by someone just standing beside it looking at it! Seriously, I assume there is a report somewhere as to her condition?

 

I don't believe that for a second. There is no way someone could assertain the condition of the boiler barrel or firebox just by looking from outside - they would only see the cladding!
The RPSI and UFTM would have the report. Whether either party would be prepared to make it public or let you look at it is a different matter, as it was essentially a private investigation between 3 parties - UFTM, RPSI and the potential sponsor.

Keith

 

It might be a private investigation, but it's a publicly owned loco.

 

That is true. However I strongly suspect that the investigation was funded by the potential sponsor, so therefore it is a private document.

Keith

 

Id donate to see a 2P newbuild.

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