The Talyllyn in trouble ?

Confusingly there are two Andrew Thomasses on here - me, the F&WHR spin doctor and another one who isn't.

 

No problem Michael - it's Dave
Ah, so not "every day" then? There would have been plenty of days with no Sir Handel or Duncan running. Being able to accurately portray Skarloey Railway characters IS one of the TRs USPs. Whether you or I think this sort of thing makes the TR look like a "funfair" is immaterial - it's for children! If it attracts the next generation of TRPS members then it is well worthwhile. I personally hate No6 being used in this way as it was the first loco I did a firing trip on(in TR lined green with the old front buffer beam - much better!), but it is only one loco, after all.
Dave - neither the F&WHR spin-doctor or the "other" Andrew Thomas )

 

What I actually said was:

having a plastic face on an engine day in day out,

No 3 did carry the name painted on and the face hung on the top lamp bracket every day. I appreciate that it did not actually run every day - but it did run most weekdays because it was always a reliable engine and it did not revert to it's proper identity on the days when it was not running.

 

Is it fair to say 'Sir Handel' running in this guise was fairly unique in that it had the personal blessing of Rev W Awdry and not many other railways were running as 'Engines with faces'?

Well before the franchising took over and still in the innocence of being a reflection of the original books.

 

Let's be honest here Paul: it isn't the TR's method of signalling trains by EKT that's losing the railway money, nor is it a major cost for the operating company. It's the lack of passengers. I would suspect that the cost of ripping out the EKT and it's associated wiring would take a long time to pay back.

 

Yep it was unique and I recall Wilbert Awdry coming to lend the loco to the TR (accompanied by the National Coal Board's pair of Shire Horses) - and I have a picture to prove it! Certainly had some marketing effect then because of it's unusual nature - though even then I wondered how many people actually rode on the trains as opposed to just bringing the kids to see him.

 

That sounds like 'Peter Sam' visiting?

 

Oops - You're right - memory lapse - we still have the wooden replica Peter Sam nameplate that my daughter won in the colouring competition!

I do have a picture of WA with Sir Handel though - that must have been an earlier special occasion.

 

OK, so to get back to the topic, can it be reasonably said that the Taly has the situation under control or is there something else that needs to be done?

Regards

 

Ellis, thanks for joining in the discussion - it's always good to hear from "those in the know". Likewise, thanks to the others on here who are part of the TR set-up.

Fascinating though the discussion of faces on engines through the ages is (he says with tongue ever so slightly in cheek) it doesn't actually contribute much to the discussion. It suspect that most of us on Nat Pres would prefer not to have Thomas artifacts around, but more than happily accept that if it brings in some extra dosh then we'd live with it - up to a point.

There has also been some suggestions about signalling and stations. There may now possibly be cheaper ways of controlling points and managing single line working etc. But the infrastructure is already there (and has been for some time) - surely nobody is suggesting that it should be taken out and replaced? That would be a waste, unless renewal is needed anyway.

As far as stations go then it is really only Tywyn and Abergynolwyn that have been developed to any great extent, both needs driven to provide facilities that simply weren't there before. Yes Tywyn has more recently changed with the new museum building, but isn't that run under a separate trust? It does provide another attraction. What the TR does do well is that everything seems to be well presented - clean, tidy, well kept stations and trains. Reasonable facilities. And it must be one of very few railways that is able to put all(?) it's carriages and locos away under cover at the end of the day. This speaks of getting priorities right.

Oh, and I too don't think the on train seating is particularly uncomfortable. For those who haven't been - it is well worth a visit.

Steve B

Edit - the discussion moved on whilst I was writing, so apologies for some repetition

 

Of course you are right. However in the present situation a succession of small savings may be vital. Mr. Micawber's maxim comes to mind although he did not adhere to his own advice! I can't remember the figures but I do recall being astonished by the percentage of one particular railway's operating costs which were represented by S&T expenses. Time moves on and there are means of telecommunication around which remove the need for landlines and require very much less maintenance. Flog off the EKT instruments to collectors and either leave redundant wiring in situ or, if there is enough of it, dig it up for scrap.

If passenger numbers cannot be revived then simplification is a better option than passing the hat round the membership to meet day to day running costs. The membership will be needed when capital projects come along as they will.

Nothing very original about this and I am sure it has been considered already!

Paul H.

 

I won't visit any railway running a "Thomas" event; I don't like small children and these days most of their parents.

 

No problem Steve, there does seem to have been an air of gloom surrounding recent press reports. Passenger numbers are not where we would like, it's now about how we move to improve those (weather permitting) I won't insult other TR members' intelligence as quite rightly they have their own opinions on how well the TR is doing or not doing. My personal opinion is we foresaw any problems and acted quickly to get us on good footing. As suggested, whether this counts against us in brining in money for major appeals in the future, who knows.

It really depends on what extra facilities the public need at stations. I may be a little biased but Tywyn Wharf has the best selection of food on offer that I've seen at a heritage railway in the Wharf Cafe. Perhaps that's not want visitors want, they'd like more prepared sandwiches? Your point is valid Steve in what do visitors want at stations, you deemed the facilities 'reasonable', what more should we be providing?

It's a genuine question as its always good to hear what people would want, those that are regular TR visitors may become too acclimatised to our surroundings.

Wharf has a good sized Cafe, Shop and Museum. Abergynolwyn has a Cafe, Playground and Picnic area. As a visitor to most other heritage railways I have yet to see anything else that is provided that could be provided on the TR.

 

I think TtTE is slowly dying as a viable event for heritage railways, killed by slowly declining market penetration amongst many other "character" brands (yuck! can't believe I wrote that phrase...) and overly rapacious demands by the licence holder in what the heritage railway has to provide in order to stage a TtTE event. Most railways can offer an event that is attractive to families in terms of what is offered, without going to the expense of having character actors, signature engines etc. The TR might be a bit cheaper in that it owns pretty much all the signature engines that might be needed (unlike most standard gauge railways that have to hire a Thomas loco in), but even so - I think to a large extent the owners have killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. Even the Bluebell, like the TR another line that has an explicit rather than notional connection to the books, hasn't run a Thomas event for three or four years.

As for faces on engines - I don't think it is that much of a draw, even to parents with small children. You see the face, say ho-hum, but actually in my experience most children of that sort of target age (say 4 - 8) don't need the face to make the connection. Just having a steam loco is generally enough. And since it is parents who ultimately make the decision whether to go or not, really you need to make sure it is a good day out for them - which in my expereince partly means the usual good customer service stuff (clean toilets, reasonably priced food, good website that explains what to do, where to go etc) and partly, if you have small children in tow, means having a few things to occupy them in any long stops. As a parent with toddler-aged children, I'd rate a discrete playground higher than faces on engines...

That said, for the TR, the killer for any family with children is always going to be the time to get there, unless you happen to be on holiday in the area (which means limited times of the year) or happen to be a local (which essentially means almost no one). No good having a brilliant attraction if you have a hellish car journey to get there. So I think there might be more mileage in playing up the charms of the TR to a more sophisticated adult market: that means making the most of its Victorian charm and slightly wonky rolling stock, not trying to pretend they don't exist. Certainly, the TR isn't the FfR or the WHR, but I think would be losing something if it did try to compete with those lines. It has other, more low key pleasures and a charm that neither of those lines can match.

Tom

 

Just shows how much you know about it. The talyllyn prides itself on it high retention of return visitors, as the results for the passenger survey keep pointing out.
Shouldnt the experience of customer service count for anything - sometimes the experiences i have had on the railway up north seem to show that that aspect could be improved, without trying to wrench as much money out of folk as possible. If that is to be done at least do it with a smile. Yes the Talyllyn could help itself by becoming a smidge more business minded but i hope its never as business minded as others where it affects customers enjoyment.

 

You read my mind there Tom, I was about to mention the Victorian theme myself. Not sure how you would exploit it on a mass tourism basis, but it could work for the coach party market - inc murder mystery and ghost trains perhaps? Schools also love a bit of Victorian history, but that would only work for those within an hour or so's travel time I imagine (mind you, I would think the TR already have the schools market covered).

 

The faces are and have always been hardboard base with polystyrene and papermash and a varnish finish.

 

The TR may well be able to operate with staff & ticket instead of key token but, IMHO, it would be a very retrograde step. I'm old enough to remember working on the TR with staff & ticket and it worked fine until something went wrong, as occasionally happens with the best of organisations. The problems caused by the inflexibility of staff & ticket are considerable, especially when you need to get the staff from one blockpost to another. The NYMR has exactly the same problem; staff & ticket is fine as long as everything is going to plan. Once that plan fails, it becomes a nightmare. That is the main reason why the NYMR are going over to token operation in 2013.

The TR's signalling and train control system is about as simple as you can get with multi-train operation on single track and I suspect that the cost savings of doing away with key token aren't worth the loss of flexibility.

 

Victorian trains run every week during the Summer and are very popular, they use the original coaching stock and locomotives. I'm still very surprised on the opinions on the TRs coaching stock being uncomfortable, have never had that experience in all honesty.

Murder Mystery and Ghost Trains (Halloween) will also be running and again are very popular

 

SH appeared 82/83 and PS was around 1990 i believe