Castle & Star discussion ex Dean Goods thread

Re: New forum home,

All this discussion about a Castle - star conversion is interesting. The first Castles were in effect reboilered Stars, with larger (16") cylinders, larger boiler (but smaller than the No 7) and a larger cab which required a 1 foot rearward extension of the frames. The front end was the same as the Star in that the frames were joggled to accommodate the front bogie wheel. After 4092 the front end frames were altered and the joggle was dispensed with and replaced by a dished area to accommodate the front bogie wheel. The inside cylinder casting increased in width but the curved side pattern casing remained until from no 5013 onwards a box pattern version was applied. this was retro fitted to any engine up to 4092 (plus the Star conversions 4000/9/16/32/37/4062-4072 and 111) which had new straight frames and inside cylinders. Amongst these fitted with new front end frames were 4037,74/78/80/87/88/90/and the Abbeys 5084/88/92 plus of course 4082 later to be 7013. the Star - Castle rebuilds retained the original frames, wheels and motion and had a 1 foot extension welded on at the rear.

13 Stars were fitted with Castle outside cylinders and steampipes (4001/24/35/40/43/48/49/51/52/53/55/57/60) and looked like mini Castles with a Churchward cab. It would clearly be possible to reduce the frame length, fit a new cab and No 1 boiler and even liner down the cylinders to 15" but the joggled frames couldn't be easily replicated. It would in effect be what a modernised Star would have looked like if the 1922 survivors had not been scrapped at a much younger age than the first Castles - 4079 and 5089/91 with the same frame design lasted until 1964 whereas 4061/62 which were only a year older were scrapped in 1957/56.

 

Re: New forum home,

Something I'm not clear on from reading Nock and RCTS: were these new outside steam pipe outside cylinders on 4001 et al Castle cylinders or Star cylinders with the pattern altered for the outside steam pipes? Nock seems to vary between saying Castle cylinders and Castle type cylinders, and elsewhere it seems pretty clear that Star outside cylinders were physically smaller externally than Castle ones because Nock states Star cylinders could not be bored out beyond 15 5/8 inches.