Coal

It amazes me does this. Germany are in the process of building 12, yes12, coal fired power stations over the next few years.

 

Bang on, I doubt that there's a shortage of coal full stop, just a shortage of suitable coal, a power station can burn most rubbish types if needed, a King however would soon throw a hissyfit.

What happened to this Welsh supply that Tyseley were meant to be going over to after the demise of Daw Mill ?, or was Steam Railway as factual on that as usual (ie not) ?.

 

There are a lot of pie in the sky ideas being banded around on here! IF (and it is a big if) there was a suitable mine available to take over, the first question has to be the suitability of the coal. That is almost certainly going to mean a deep mine (i.e not opencast) and just the overheads of such a mine are likely to be the equivalent of the gross heritage railway movements income. you aren't talking thousands, more likely millions. There is ventilation, pumping and maintenance of roadways to consider before you even turn a ton of coal. It's also a 24/7/52 business with no days off for Christmas and needs fully qualified personnel to staff it. If it is opencast, the problems may be less onerous but the cost base is still high. No pit is going to survive on what the heritage railway movement needs and coal does not come out of the ground in convenient cobble sized lumps so you have to have a marketing organisation to sell the majority of the output elsewhere. suitable opencast coal is fairly thin on the ground, as well as opencasting usually means the geologically younger seams of coal which are generally the least suitable for burning in a firebox.

Victor was right about Selby but he's a bit behind the times. The last pit closed a couple of years ago. Back in 1983, it was said that there was about 20 years of coal available there and they weren't far wrong. As for re-opening pits, it just doesn't happen. once a mine is closed and abandoned, it is closed forever, generally sterilising the coal that is left there. The only way the UK can increase its output of coal is with new mines in virgin territory. Oxfordshire and Snaith would be real possibilities but can you imagine the outcry if the former was suggested!

Mods, there are now two active threads on this subject. Can they be merged?

 

How about right in the middle of Chipping Norton, Steve? Now that would really upset the riff-raff.

 

As you will doubtless learn as you get older its not necessarily a matter of choice or fortune. As you get into the 50s there's a reduced chance of getting another job when you find yourself jobless due to reorganisation, redundancy or employer going bust, and it gets lower every year. For most people it will not be a question of having to work longer, they will stop working at the same age but be on the dole instead of having a pension. The exception of course will be the executive class who will continue to feather their nests at the expense of the rest of us.

 

Interesting to hear an explanation of why opencast coal is unsuitable but was not Scottish coal from Killoch used on some preservation railways or mainline steam? Isn't that opencast? It is available in both Scotland and South Wales, and other places too I think. The technology and equipment for this type of extraction must be simpler and involve less safety hazards than deep mining. Take a look on Google Earth for the opencast sites in Lanarkshire and West Wales [where there are also some smaller drift mines similar to those in the Forest of Dean]. The Scottish sites have only just suspended work so to restart would not be too problematic. I gather there is still a chance that some sites could be re-opened if Scottish Coal assetts are sold off.

 

Got this from the National Traction Engine Club website


Ffos-y-fran Welsh Dry Steam Coal

Home » Latest News
Coal4Energy in conjunction with Miller Argent are pleased to announce the return of Welsh Dry Steam Coal from Ffos-y-fran near the town of Merthyr Tydfil, South Wales. Ffos-y-fran is part of a major land reclamation scheme and is set to produce in excess 50,000 tonnes of sized product every year for the next 10 years or so.
“Enthusiasts may remember the days of the Royal Arms Coal. Ffos-y-fran is the adjacent site and the coal has similar characteristics.”
Coal Characteristics
Suitable for all types of steam raising boilers
•• Sulphur levels up to 1.5%
•• Calorific value c.30 GJ/tonne
•• Less than 0.05% chlorine
•• Ash levels 5-8%
•• Sizing (45 x 65mm) and (65 x 125mm)
•• Volatiles 11-15%
•• Assured quality
•• Continuity of Supply
NB: The above sizing is indicative and can be altered in accordance with customer requirements. Coal will be produced within an ISO9001 accredited quality assurance system.
To order your supply or for further information and prices please contact:
Coal4Energy Limited/Hargreaves Services plc
Mwyndy Industrial Estate
Llantrisant
Mid Glamorgan
CF72 8PN
tel: 01443 236605
fax: 1443 227085
email: ffos@coal4energy.co.uk

Don't know if this will be of any help.

Cheers Dave

 

Dave, that article is a couple of year old now, when the product first came to the market. I think the problem now is that demand is outstripping supply for loco grade?

 

Foxfield could just keep digging in its shaft excavations- used to supply good coal to the LMS

 

I've just put an order in for some, expensive but no choice. It does mean that a day's steaming will now cost between £400 to £600 a day per loco (depending on size). That's a lot of extra passengers needed just to keep income steady. It's going to make galas with a lot of locos very expensive to run.

 

That I think is the real danger Pete - coal will be available, but not automatically suitable for the job and at a price that will be higher than when more sources were in play. on top of everything else, heritage railways need this like a hole in the head (or trackbed!)

Steven

 

I'm just in the process of ordering some and didn't think the price quoted was too bad. OK, more than we were paying for Scottish coal but I guess the transport costs are less from Immingham to Leeds!

 

Although the deeper the seam, the older it is, depth of coal below the surface is not a total indicator due to faulting, upthrows and ground erosion. You can get older coals nearer to the surface than newer coals either side of an upthrow, where the newer coals may not exist for a variety of reasons. I'm totally out of touch with present economics and conditions but it used to be reckoned that it was worth digging down 75ft for every foot of coal available (when I was a wee lad!)

Have a look at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thereggy/2655613917/in/set-72157606092078321/
This and subsequent pages will give you some idea of how coal seams can be faulted and how the older seams can be at the surface.

 

I've used the Russian coal on and off for a while. It's now £25 a tonne more than it was last month. It's made the local news though. http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentish_express/news/Railway-gets-coal-from-Russia-1285/

 

For the uneducated, is this 50% more, 10% etc?
Thanks

 

Sorry if these have been posted before.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22681141


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22711416

 

i have heard on the grape vine that those who ordered the welsh coal before the Daw Mill incident are fine but (in my mind this is the right way to do it) those that are now looking to purchase the welsh cant because Frosyfran have their existing customers to think about.

cheers

 

Yes, reported elsewhere that Frosyfran is currently only for existing customers. However the SVR has reported getting adequate supplies from its "usual souce" so I suspect ( but dont know for sure) that the Ayrshire opencast stuff is still being sold, despite Scottish Coal going into administration. Hargreaves were reported as being " preferred bidder" for some of the Scottish assets, so maybe the deal is done and the new owners are naturally anxious to keep supplying customers?

46118