Meon Valley Railway Restoration

Good luck to you.

 

And an even madder one to connect Loughborough and Nottingham. looks whats going to become of that.

 

I've been reading this with some confusion. can someone from this restoration group enlighten us as to the current state of ownership of the trackbed? I assume this has been carefully mapped by the restoration group, since I understood that from West Meon northwards much if not all of the trackbed is privately owned, as are the stations, and from Droxford to Knowle is owned by the County Council. I'd also be interested to know what was the county council's response to the proposal to relay track on their permitted bridleway (I take it they have already been fully informed of this and given their outline consent?).

 

Good luck with this scheme. I have a soft spot for the Meon Valley

Back in the late 60s (possibly summer 1970, but no later as we moved away before 71) my family would visit the line and walk the track from Wickham northwards (remember it was a different world back then). At this stage the line was disused, but had been hired out to Sadler Vectrail (?) - there was a burnt out carriage in the remains of the yard at Wickham

Two memories stand out. First was one spring approaching the overbridge north of Wickham when a fox appeared coming down the cutting side, closely followed by a pack of hounds and then the full hunt. Luckily for us the fox disappeared sideways before it reached us. Second, was when a small green diesel shunter approached from the Droxford direction and gave us all a cab ride

STEVE

 

Yes I believe the track bed north from West Meon is owned by a variety of private owners. Also much of this section has been ploughed back into fields, had bridges demolished (not least of which the West Meon viaduct) and had major roads built across it. For these reasons the restoration of this section would be a very long term pipe dream!

However the southern section of the tracked from West Meon to Knowle is almost 100% intact. Other than two small bridges missing and the area between the platforms being in filled at Wickham, there are no other obstructions. So this is the section that it is being proposed to rebuild. I believe this section is owned by Hampshire county council, with the exception of Droxford station which is privately owned (and seemingly very well looked after)

The idea is to have the bridle way and railway sharing the tracked. The Meon Valley railway was only ever single track, but the formation was built to double track standards so it could easily be updated if necessary. So there is room to have both. What HCC make of the proposal remains to be seen!

I am not part of the preservation group by the way, just and interested observer!

 

What do the proponents hope to use for traction and rolling stock? A new build Leader perhaps?

 

I too loved the Meon Valley Railway (not that I am old enough to have seen any of it running) , but for me it is all part of that yearning for a lost and safer world that is no more. We do though live in a world today where unfeasibly rich oligarchs indulge their egos by spending hundreds of millions on football clubs, so there is always the possibility that a rich Arab or Russian rail fanatic decides a Meon Valley railway is just what he always wanted! Until then the best we can do is Pete Waterman
(PS no disresepect intended Pete! )

 

This is about right!

Thirty or more years ago it was just about possible to start up a scheme on a dash of "wouldn't it be nice" plus a lot of hard graft and some kindliness from engineering companies. Nowadays, in addition to this, actual money is needed; a lot of it and not just for civil and mechanical engineering but for boring things like sanitation.

I would have rather have seen the Meon Valley Line as a tourist operation than the Mid-Hants, which started life as a would be public service operation (the classic error) but metamorphosed into a purely heritage railway. Scenically the Meon Valley has the edge IMHO. However it did not happen and once the line was lifted that was that. Just accept it .

PH

 

It probably won't happen, a beautiful route is probably not enough on its own. However, that is no reason to deny vocal and moral support to those who have a vision, even if it entails neither our money or volunteering. If it were not for early visionaries taking up the challenge from the late sixties onwards, we would not be able to enjoy the fantastic railway heritage we now have.

Good luck too anybody attempting to follow in the footsteps of the early pioneers, however difficult or impossible their project may appear. If only a few projects come to fruition then we all gain. Give them a break chaps.

 

I regret I cannot agree. It is going to be difficult enough for existing schemes to develop, even survive, in future with more newcomers around. The factor which enabled the big expansion in the past was relatively young people taking early retirement in goodish health and comparatively prosperous. They could remember "real" steam railways. Both factors will lessen and there will be more and more organisations which have nothing to do with railways competing for the voluntary labour of those who are available.

PH

 

Surely one of the purposes of life is to take on challenges which too collective mankind might appear impossible. Of course many individuals and projects will fail in the course of time. Only a very small number will succeed - a bit Darwinian, or more to the point, a little like the current situation in the heritage railway movement. I don't see that as a solid reason to decry those wishing to face the challenge - they will surely be richer and wiser as individuals for the experience, success or failure.

 

Reminds me of the man who was asked why he wanted to climb Everest. "Because it is there" he replied.

He died.

PH

 

A few facts about the Bluebell extension to put this scheme in context: We built 6 miles of "new" railway (i.e. where the earthworks existed, but everything from the ground up had to be re-instated, rather like the Meon Valley proposal). The decision to start was basically taken around the early 1970s, and the final fishplate bolt was tightened this year, about 40 years later and at a cost (in today's prices) of £12 million. Included in that price was land purchase in over 30 separate parcels and a planning process that went all the way up to Secretary of State level, as well as the actual construction work itself.

That means, an average rate of progress of one mile every 6-7 years and £2 million. (I know that isn't how the project progressed, but that's the average). And that rate of progress was on the back of a society that had, at current count, nearly 11,000 members to provide expertise, funding and "oomph", as well as also having an existing railway both to demonstrate a seriousness of intent and to mean that we had an infrastructure of locos, carriages and trained volunteers to operate the extension as it developed.

Now, I don't know the geography or local politics that well - maybe the Meon Valley will be simpler in engineering terms and have more local support. But for a line that has been closed so long, and in which the entire engineering, fundraising and knowledge infrastructure of building and operating a line will have to start from scratch, even opening just a couple of miles will be a phenomenal challenge. And that challenge is not just hacking away at a few brambles: the real difficulty will be in navigating the financial, legal, property and planning hurdles. I really suspect that unless there is real deep-seated local political will to make it happen (and worth remembering that Tourism and Leisure are not high on most County Council worries), then I think you are really into hoping that some Dubai Sheikh or Russian Oligarch happens to have a deep seated love of trains - because otherwise, I'm afraid, I can't see it.

Tom

 

I agree with everything you say Tom. Of course the likelihood of the MVR succeeding is extremely slim. My original point was that everybody should be allowed to attempt the almost impossible, without others telling them they are bound to fail.

PH I like your somewhat flawed analogy. Those involved with the MVR probably have the same inquisitive and determined attitude - except they are not going to die in their efforts !

 

But at least he tried. If nobody had tried we would have achieved nothing in the heritage movement nor any other walk of life.

 

I don't think the comparisons with the Bluebell extension are particularly relevant. As said land had to be purchased from 30 landowners for the East Grinstead extension. The Meon valley route from West Meon to Knowle is owned by Hampshire county council, with the exception of Droxford station. The Bluebell spent millions digging out the domestic waste and spoil in the cutting. On the other hand this section of the Meon Valley has no such major engineering works, and in the most part is pretty much ready to lay track on straight away.

So it would just need approval from Hampshire county council, and 5 miles of track from just outside Wickham station to just outside Droxford station could easily be relaid - initially avoiding the problems of Droxford station being in private owner, and the tracked being filled in between the platforms at Wickham.

I'm not saying it would be easy or in any way likely to happen. However I don't think it's outside the realms of possibility that in a few years we could see an initial stage of half a mile of track, and brake van rides offered behind a diesel shunter.

 

I can't see the line reopening from Wickham to Droxford but I can see a group setting up a base at Wickham and running a small length of line. A bit like the Lavender Line.

 

I was simply pointing out that the cost and complexity are considerable. Even assuming you had the land and the planning permission, the cost of laying a new single track railway from clean, cleared formation level upwards (including materials, drainage etc) is of the order of £1 million per mile. And even if HCC own most of the land, it still needs buying, and in today's austerity times, I can't see them wanting to sell it for much below market value. Quite apart from the planning battle to go through to get a line built. Major project as it was, the actual digging out of the tip on the Bluebell was only about 25% of the overall extension cost - which brings the price of the extension down to £1.5million per mile without the tip.

If HCC wanted to get some amenity value out of the land, I'd have thought going to Sustrans or a long distance footpath would be much cheaper, and much less contentious, than giving permission for a railway, especially when an argument could be made that Hampshire already has a major league preserved line very nearby.

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

You also forgot to add the up keep of the line which must cost a fair bit over the years.

 

I would imagine that HCC would retain ownership of the land, and simply grant permission for trains to be run on it. Much like the situation at the Swanage Railway where I believe Dorset County Council owns the trackbed.

It's actually already a long distance footpath/cyclepath, and the proposal is the rebuilt railway would co exist with this. I'm under no illusions that this would be an expensive project, just saying that on the face of it it appears to be an easier/cheaper project that what the Bluebell has achieved.