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Bluebell Motive Power

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Orion, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. Rlangham

    Rlangham Well-Known Member

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    I'll help you find cover, I fully agree!
     
  2. tom92240

    tom92240 Part of the furniture

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    Heres hoping help is close by then ey!
     
  3. A1X

    A1X Well-Known Member

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    Also let's not forget 541 is coming along and once 847 is out and with 73082 out of the picture then work on that can pick up pace. Even if she is only able to alternate with 1638 it's the equivalent of one big Maunsell
     
  4. 45076

    45076 Member

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    No the only way is BR black.
    Thats what anyone still alive today can remember.
     
  5. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    We are now into the second generation of people who can only remember preservation liveries!
     
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  6. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    I am 48 and still alive, as far as I can tell. Although I was born in Lancashire I don't remember seeing any BR steam locos before my 4th birthday, just after the end of steam. Therefore my earliest steam livery memories are the locos on the Lakeside & Haverthwaite railway in the 1970s. At that time the Fairburn tanks were in LNWR black and Caledonian blue. Even the Black 5 was painted green. Happy memories!
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Last time I checked, I still had a pulse, and my earliest memory of a steam engine was a green one with a big shiny brass dome... (While my father, who is also very much still alive, clearly remembers the pre-war Maunsell liveries!)

    Tom
     
  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Sadly, I'd suspect that 1638 will have been permanently failed with one issue or another before 541 is finished, unless there is some major miracle! So very unlikely they will be seen together, though 541 and 847 should run together, and with a following wind, in 6 or 7 years, maybe Stowe will also be running, giving us three Maunsell engines simultaneously.

    From the end of 2014 / early 2015, things look not too bad, but the issue is getting there: through this summer, this coming Santa season and next summer. After that it all looks a bit happier.

    Tom
     
  9. Kje7812

    Kje7812 Part of the furniture

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    It doesn't surprise me really: Freight was 'kinder' to the locos with freight locos outlasting their passenger contemporaries by a number of years. After all, 28xxs are introduced at the same time (roughly) as the Stars and Saints which were withdrawn earlier than them and had been displaced from top link duties a few years beforehand, while the 28's were still used on the heaviest trains (there being a natural western preference for them over the 9Fs).
     
  10. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Is that just pessimism or do you have some hard facts?
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not really that surprising. A typical mainline goods train in the Edwardian era consisted of small wagons of about 10 tons weight, with no continuous brake. Train weights and speeds were essentially limited by the braking capacity of the loco and brake van, not the available power of the engine. A typical mainline express passenger train was made up from 6 wheel and bogie vehicles of about 15 - 25 tons each, and train weights were rarely above about 250 tons, nor speeds much above 50mph average.

    Roll forward fifty years, and express passenger trains were hauling carriages in the 30-35 ton range for similar seating capacity, and train weights would often be 350 tons or more, with higher average speeds as well. Yet freight was still resolutely in the Victorian era: most wooden underframe wagons had been replaced with steel, but continuous brakes were still a rarity, so goods trains were essentially still limited by braking capacity, not motive power.

    Given that fact, and also the slow speed of goods trains meaning that it might take, say, 40 years to rack up 1,000,000 miles, whereas a passenger engine might do the same mileage in about 25 years, and it is not that surprising that Edwardian passenger engines were essentially either worn out or outclassed and demoted or scrapped within 25-30 years, whereas goods engines of the same era often had lives of 50 years or more.

    Tom
     
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  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    1638 is very tired, both mechanically and especially the boiler. At the same time, once 847 is finished, 541 will need boiler work and so does B473. Given that, next time 1638 fails, a decision would have to be made whether to expend more resources on it, or do B473, or carry on with 541. Obviously that depends a bit what any impending failure is (boiler or otherwise), and when it happens, and what the available resources are to fix it, and what the rest of the motive power situation looks like, and a host of other factors, but I'd suspect that any boiler failure that requires significant boiler work to fix will result in the engine being permanently stopped, rather than repaired - especially if the available labour (and workshop space) is being utilized on 541 or B473 at the time. (And just for interest's sake, when 1638 had recent injector problems, an injector from 541 was put on, rather than fixing 1638's own; so 541 can't enter service unless 1638's own injector is repaired).

    Worth remembering that when 1638 was outshopped, it was stated at the time that it was expected she would only run until 2012, so we have already had about a year's bonus on that projection. But I think a lot of people would be quietly amazed if she makes it out of this year still running, and 541 won't be running in that timescale.

    Tom
     
  13. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    If 1638's boiler is that bad, how did it pass its last 14-monthly insurance inspection?
     
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Things wear out. If they didn't, there'd be no need for regular inspections!

    Tom
     
  15. David-Haggar

    David-Haggar Member

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    Thanks for the update re:1638. My Dad and I really do hope it can at least last until the Giants Of Steam gala as we'd love to see the U boat double-heading with 847 paired with the 5 car set of olive green carriages. This combination would look fantastic, and that's coming from BR livery fans:), and maybe this would give a fitting send-off for 1638 before it's eventual withdrawal.
     
  16. A1X

    A1X Well-Known Member

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    Bring back the KWVR liveried Ivatt! Although I suppose it could be argued it's already happened with 55...
     
  17. 45076

    45076 Member

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    Loco owners have every right to paint/number whatever they like.
    But we all have our own preferences.As I was a child in the late 50s/early 60s I remember BR black or dirty green or maroon which looked almost black.
    As you will see at any steam gala the vast majority of steam enthusiasts are getting on in years and probably remember the same.
    I do wonder what will happen when my generation departs. I know many people 20-40 years old whose childhood memory's are of first generation diesels which they follow at railways throughout the country not interested in steam at all.Also you only have to look at modern traction forums to see people enthusing over types of dmu/emu,its what they have grown up with.
     
  18. BillyReopening

    BillyReopening Member

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    If it helps 45076 - I'm 31 and I do know plenty of people my age who are very much interested in steam..
     
  19. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    I remember reading some years ago people saying its would be nice to see more locos in BR green or lined out black with a BR emblem because this is the way they remember see locos. But now we seem to gone full circle again. I'm looking forward to seeing 30499 in LSWR livery. I'm also still hoping to see 34007 in malachite green.
     
  20. A1X

    A1X Well-Known Member

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    I have to say malachite green on a Bulleid spam can is a massively underrated livery, 21C123 easily stole the show for me when they had Bulleidfest at the Bluebell in 2007. Seeing one in full flight on the main line would be quite something.
     

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