Weymouth Seaside Express 2013

So motive power for next week.. 5029 on the torbay so tangmere, ollie Cromwell ? Scots guardsmen prehaps unlikely I know.

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I just wonder what a civilisation far, far out into space monitoring this thread would think!

"A.... Look, look another war is about to break out! They've started all the preliminaries on this "Forum" places. It's terrifying stuff. A train of old carriages was going to what they call the seaside. And it left the starting place late.....

B....Wow, do they start wars over late running trains?

A....No, not that. But because the two engines at the front were in the wrong order on the way out.

B...So the train didn't run at all and everyone on board died as a result?

A...No, the train ran ok, it just ran late. And no one was harmed in any way.

B...Oh, so all those on board are going to start a war over the engines being in the wrong order?
.
A... Well ....sort of......yes. But not actually those on board. Virtually all of those starting the war weren't on the train. They were many miles away in their homes just using their computers.

B....Oh. And all this is more important than producing enough food and clean drinking water for all those who populate the same planet?

A... Yes, that is the way of life these people lead.

B.... Hmmmm... Can we cancel the trip planned to that planet please? I think we can spend our money on something far more worthwhile. Can I get out the plans out again for the second high speed space ship link to that planet we found populated largely by Bavarian Serving Wenches? You know, the HS2 space link.

 

Decisions on steam operations are being taken regionally by NR depending on local conditions. Inevitably this means that apparent inconsistencies arise. Yesterday the Shakespeare Express ran without any diesel, and the North Wales Coast Express ran with a diesel at the back (as originally planned) so presumably the fire risk restrictions were lifted in these areas. The Waverley ran with diesel behind the steam. I believe that NR Wessex (who are responsible for Castle Cary-Weymouth) were happy for the diesel to tail (?), but the Bristol area Control insisted that the diesel should be directly behind the steam (heavy rain notwithstanding). I believe the decision to put the diesel on the front was taken by the operator to save on further delays shunting at Bristol - understandable in the circumstances.

 

Spot on Martin, plus the Shakespeares have been running for many years, with the same loco and often the same crew. They'll know the route inside out, where they can afford to lose time by not working the loco as hard, and where they can make that time up. Bristol to Weymouth isn't a core WCRC route, so they won't know it quite as intimately.

 

The question needs to be asked why Wessex were happy at that and Bristol were not, why the inconsistency ?, as long as the Diesel is in the formation and taking the load, why is it's position such a thorny issue ?, is there a logical reason as opposed to "that's what the local rulebook says".

 

But what were they supposed to do it was a changing situation I imagine bits were wetter than others workthe diesel hard in the dryer places, stop every mile to stick a fork in the ground?

I know I am being flippant and I am not saying it was ideal but equally this is scenario on the main line where they have to keep to a schedule, cannot really see how they could overcome this.

 

Ok so we are happily bowling along at 75mph with x hundreds of tons in the consist and a signal unexpectedly reverts to red or there is a tresspasser on the line (Possibly a photographer ringing his mates to moan that there is a diesel on the back ), whether the Castle puts the brakes on or not, the fact that the power is all coming from the rear and thus will be a certain delay associated with the shutting off of said power until driver notes there has been an emergency brake application is going to be an issue.

Equally if you were on the Castle and thus 'in charge' would you want to be dependent on another for speed control etc?

 

I'd like to add that apart from the cock up with our booking, my group places no blame on RTC for yesterday's nonsense as they were as much victims of circumstance as were the passengers.

 

but once the castle braked wouldn't the diesel know because the brake pressure dropped ? then in turn back off the power and brake

 

As has been written Bristol is GW not Wessex Control.

The issue is timing with power from the rear. No matter how fast the driver on the diesel reacts the train will have travelled a fair way. In 5 seconds a train at 75mph will have covered 183 yards in those 5 seconds. I think that's right anyway!

Very unlikely to be an incident but if there was a Spad or level crossing incident or whatever that distance might become important.

You can see why a controller would be cautious. The likelihood of anything happening is really low but the outcome might be very serious. The guy in charge (or girl) has decided that they didn't want to take the risk of over ruling that instruction and that is their right.

SG

 

Shoulden't the brake force be enough to overpower the the tractive power being put down ?, makes TPWS rather a waste of time if it can't stop a train in a reasonable distance even if the power handles wide open.

 

It is worth emphasising the point made earlier that, except where specified in the relevant sectional appendix, assistance in rear is not permitted unless in an emergency to remove a failed train. The diesel on the back should never have been an option in this particular circumstance and, although it obviously annoyed some people standing in wet fields hoping to take a photograph, it would seem that the decision to take the assisting loco off the back of the train and place it on the front was the correct one. People on the railway get into trouble for not obeying rules and regulations and I would hope that consideration of lineside viewers is somewhat further down the list of their priorities than doing the job right.

 

The discussion of photographing from level crossings has been discussed here before but I cannot find the previous link. As stated on this thread already, a crossing is just for that, crossing. It's not for lingering or indeed as a position from which you can take a photo. Ok, you have common sense and won't step out in front of a train but there have been instances where such photographers have. I suggest that crossings are NOT used for photographing from unless you are behind the barrier or decision point (Stop, Look, Listen sign). Drivers can and will report people hanging around on crossings. This results in trains being cautioned incurring delays to not only the train you are there to photograph but also the rest of the services.

I have heard on here and other forums about a conspiracy theory that NR and other TOC's would love to ban steam excursions. Whether it is true or not I do not know but if it is, to cause delays by abusing the crossing instructions will be another nail in the steam markets coffin.

 

I will merely reiterate the basic point, do people honestly believe that it safe for the driver in charge of a train to have no control over the power application and thus speed of the train, whether or not the brake will overcome the force behind (and I don't even want to think of the effect on a train of Mk1 stock that has a Castle on the front braking hard and a class 33 on the rear merrily pushing on) simple common sense would suggest its not the best idea for normal operation.

On a similar basis I assume you would be happy to bowl down the M6 at 70mph with only brake control, with the accelerator being controlled by someone who could not see the road ahead.

 

Its worth emphasising the point that WCR and the crew are fully aware of the rules. So why present the train that way unless they were told there was no requirement for diesel motive power. That is the point, not the rule about working in tandem. Had they know working in tandem was required, the diesel would have been tucked behind the steam engine wouldn't it.

 

So long as the earth is not about to be demolished by a Vogon contructor fleet to make way for Hyper Space 2! If so, I'm off to get a really hot cup of tea and make sure I know where my towel is! And to get my coat...

 

Usually the fence/gate/decision point is sufficient for a view. At the end of the day you usually cant get closer to the running line than a station platform, so a crossing point has to be pretty special to be worthy of consideration.

 

Like the HH guide, HS2 is fiction.