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Steam Drivers

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Steve, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Pesmo

    Pesmo Member

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    Going back to Steves post #23. I spend a good part of my day interpreting standards and regulations in another industry but one thing that struck me was that it was a 'recommendation' . That to me doesn't necessarily mean that it will be mandated or even that it will become a defined practice. This implies that there may be some flexibilty recognising the way heritage railways are organised. Time will tell.
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It is, as you say, a Guidance Note, and you don't have to comply with it. However, HRA Guidance Notes are endorsed by HMRI and, if you deviate from it, you need to have a sound alternative approach allied to a robust risk assessment
     
  3. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Given the genuine concerns raised in this thread and, no doubt, elsewhere it sounds like some consultation with HRA membership is needed before finalising this proposal.
     
  4. Fireman Dave

    Fireman Dave New Member

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    I think common sense has to prevail. Class based instruction is simply not needed on steam locomotives. It's required for diesel and electrics use to the fact that various components that a driver is likely to be able to find (often relatively quickly) are often in different locations from class to class. This is not the case on steam.
    There is a case to be made (and I'm going to assume it's already the case) for drivers to be qualified in Westinghouse and vacuum braking and any other equipment that differs, like hydrostatic lubrication etc.
     
  5. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Your second and third sentences argue against each other. Right and left hand drive locos for starters. It is not just about cab controls either. That most essential part of a loco, lubrication, is vastly different from Class to Class and needs to be known by footplate crews.
     
  6. Fireman Dave

    Fireman Dave New Member

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    Left and right hand drive isn't an issue, I drive both over here and have never had a problem. As for lubrication, they've all got the same gear in roughly the sme places. As a driver you should know what I be looking for.
     
  7. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Tell that to a driver who has to prep a Castle, when he is used to LMS and Standard classes.
     
  8. Rumpole

    Rumpole Part of the furniture

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    To demonstrate 'class competence', what you really need is a robust competence management structure.

    For example, at Swanage, each Driver has a Route Card and a Traction Card in his Inspector's File. The Route Card is simple; it is the aspects of the line you currently sign; eg Swanage-Norden, Norden-Motala and each resignalling scheme that is brought into being. The Traction Card is also self-explanatory; it lists the classes of loco currently on the line, and the Driver signs next to these classes if he is assessed as competent to drive those locomotives. There is space below for further engines that may visit, or that they can demonstrate compentence on from elsewhere (eg their employment on the main line). This signature is witnessed and countersigned either by a Traction Inspector or by the Ops Manager. This provides you with a ready paper trail to confirm that the Driver signs each form of traction should there be any question. If you want to take it to the next step, put all of this in an Excel spreadsheet so you can see at a glance who signs what. You could even tie this into your rostering system if you wished.

    In physically 'signing' for each item of traction, then this provides the opportunity during the driving exam to have a discussion about the foibles and intricacies of each particular locomotive, and to ensure that this person has actually had experience of them. You could run through the handbook for each locomotive if you have one (we do for every resident locomotive), and ensure that the Driver understands things like how to work a hydrostatic lubricator (and no, the answer isn't black magic), or why he shouldn't over-full a Wakefield mechanical lubricator. My driving exam took two days (one day rules and locomotive theory, one day practical), and even then I only signed for four of our five resident steam locomotives immediately!

    Alternatively, if you are playing catch up with existing Drivers, this is an ideal opportunity for a refresher and discussion to enable you to identify weak areas/bad habits/downright dodgy practices, and to enable these to be eliminated or monitored.

    From this point on, keep records of who drives what. No doubt your Driver completes a Drivers Daily Report at the end of his duty; use that to show what he has driven on each of his turns when you record his number of duties for the year. You will then be able to see if Driver X has maintained his competence on, say, a Standard 4 tank, or if he has lapsed on, say, original Bulleids. You then have the structure to take action without it suddenly being a massive issue and finding that you have no Drivers who are competent on a particular locomotive.

    Yes there will be some training requirement based upon this, but lets be fair; this sort of thing has been muttered about for some time, particularly in the light of the RAIB report into the incident at the NYMR. I know it is something that we at Swanage have been talking about and building the framework up for the last six months or so in anticipation for this sort of recommendation coming into effect.
     
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  9. ZBmer

    ZBmer New Member

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    Can't fault Rumpole's post here. Some of the previous opinions have raised legitimate concerns about practicalities when it comes to applying competence management. But these shouldn't be used as excuses for carrying on in the same old way, when that same old way may be seen as inadequate by HRA, ORR and (if the SOW fails badly) RAIB. Like it or not - and many of our railways are at best ambivalent about the implications - competencies are going to be under ever-increasing scrutiny.

    Roger
     
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  10. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    Interesting. Did you have to demonstrate practically your competence on each of the locos you signed for, and if so how was this done? How often do you have to re-demonstrate that competence?

    One of my (many) concerns about the practicality of this is that whilst it is possible to check everyone at least once per year, if you have to do that by each loco class then you might have to arrange 5 or 6 competence assessments per person per year, and then you'd have to arrange to roster the inspector and the right loco and the person(s) being assessed, which sounds almost impossible to pull off. I am sort of assuming that this isn't what happens on the Swanage?
     
  11. NSWGR 3827

    NSWGR 3827 New Member

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    I agree with Fireman Dave. I Personally have worked on Locomotives on 3 gauge's both left & Right hand drive and never had any difficulty finding everything I have to.
     
  12. Fireman Dave

    Fireman Dave New Member

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    Still no biggy. Might be a tad uncomfortable, but not beyond the capabilities of a competent driver.
     

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