Penrhyn Railway Society dispute with Felin Fawr Cyf

With the possible exception of some very tiny groups I don't see how it is possible to have a successful organisation without some element of politics. Maybe the system is that one great leader decides everything, but even the greatest of leaders cannot be right 100% of the time.

 

In the sense that only one party is permitted!

Anyway, very glad to hear that the dispute, whatever it was, is all behind you...

 

Peter, you were not at the meeting so cannot know what was noted on and by what margin, unless these facts were reported to you by someone who was.

The society did not note not to no longer support the railway. Of course we support the project and also admire the work done so far to rebuild and restore the railway and buildings. It may be that the railway don't want our support. That is an entirely different matter.

 

I don't know who you are or whether or not you were at the meeting.
I think your chairman has explained the situation quite clearly...

A month has past since the AGM and I have now had time to reflect on the events of a very long afternoon. Regrettably the more I think about that afternoon in the Neuadd Goffa and the repercussions that followed the more unhappy I have become. Why? Here was a final opportunity to ‘lance the boil’ of an increasingly bitter relationship between PQRS and the team at Felin Fawr and to my immense disappointment the Society choose (as of course is their right) not to agree to resolve the problems between PQRS and Felin Fawr. As a result of the decisions taken that afternoon there is now a new group supporting the Penrhyn Quarry Railway, the new organisation founded by Felin Fawr, called the Penrhyn Railway Supporters. The very outcome I warned about in my previous chairman’s comments had come to pass.
For those who were not at the AGM I believe it is only right and proper that I explain what happened, particularly in view of the fact that our new Secretary is away for the time being and so the draft minutes of the AGM will not be available to members until the December edition of Y Llechan. Before the meeting the committee met and asked a member of the society if he would resign, as was his right he said he would not and that he would ask the members to decide his fate. At the same time the team from Felin Fawr arrived and asked if they could speak at the beginning of the meeting which they were allowed to do. Having spoken to the membership putting their just concerns across they left the meeting. I then opened the meeting up to the membership proposing that the meeting voted on either asking the member concerned to resign or be suspended from the Society. The member concerned spoke in his defence and then the assembled members voted on a simple question whether he should be asked to leave the Society. The AGM did not agree to this and he remains a member of the Society. This part of the meeting took up nearly two hours and by the time I concluded the meeting it was nearly six o’clock. The only saving grace of this long afternoon was that the membership agreed to the draft constitution and voted for continuation of the existing committee.
Following the AGM the membership secretary received notification from Penrhyn Quarries Limited saying that following the decisions taken at the AGM the PQRS was no longer the official support group and asking that the Society remove the name Penrhyn Quarry Railway from all of our merchandise. One week later Felin Fawr publicly announced the creation of the Penrhyn Railway Supporters and invited people to join the new organisation.
I believe the rot set in July 2012 when there was what I can best describe as resentment in parts of the rail preservation community at the low key reopening of the railway. Regrettably I do believe there were individuals out to ‘get’ the Penrhyn Railway for daring to rebuild and open a section of track and run an original engine on the rebuilt railway in 12 months. Harsh words but the team at Felin Fawr got on with the rebuilding rather than navel gazing.
So where do we go now? I and many of the members are totally disillusioned with the turn of events, which could have been stopped. What was until two years ago was a small friendly society supporting the rebuilding of an iconic railway has now become what? The very reason for our existence no longer exists.
I do not apologise for the nature of my comments, this is certainly not what I wanted when I became chairman five and a half years ago and am very sadden by the events of the last few months.
David Roberts
Chairman
Penrhyn Quarry Railway Society

 

The PQRS chairman may have explained the situation clearly in his report in the latest edition of the Society's journal, Y Llechen/The Slate, but your copy-typed transcript is selectively edited in a number of places and alters the meaning in a number of important respects.

To give just one example:
You typed: "The very reason for our existence no longer exists." (penultimate sentence). The word "very" is yours. The published report stated: "original".

I could give other examples including the positive ending to the report which you chose to edit out to make your point.

If you wish to comment on part of the content of the journal of a society of which you are not a member, at least have the decency to quote accurately.

BTW, yes, I was at the meeting.

Penrhynfan

 

I am not sure what has been printed in the society journal or how David's words may have been edited before publication.

What I posted here is what was sent out some time ago by David Roberts to those in the loop (his exact words in full which I am sure he will be able to confirm)

 

One wonders whether the Felin Fawr folk own the trade mark of the Penrhyn Quarry Railway and thus would have any legal right to ask the PQRS to remove that name from their title and merchandise?

 

I can confirm what Mr Howarth has posted, is what we received at the railway from David directly. We received this before it was edited by the society.

The reason we asked the society to take the PQR name of their merchandise was to avoid confusion. It's like us printing WHR across our merchandise and selling it.
It amazes me how much attention something like this gets...... If you follow our website, you will see our constant news updates, and the work that we carry out, yet there is no thread discussing interesting topics or projects we or most other railways are doing. Yet something irrelevant as this gets all the attention. All this is now behind us, so I don't see much point dwelling on the subject

On a differen't note, the PRS has over 100 members within the first few weeks, so we must be doing something right.

regards

Ellis Griffith Morey
Managing Director
Penrhyn Quarries Limited

 

Really???

I must be looking at a different forum to you then - there are lots of threads on various loco restorations, threads on extensions such as the GCR gap project, the GWSR Broadway project, the MCR, Masbury, threads on carriage and wagon restorations etc etc.

If there's no thread on Penrhyn projects then maybe you should start one and publicise your railway?


Keith

 

While not knowing the slightest bit about (or caring particularly) the actions of individuals concerned, it is symptomatic of the way things have changed over the last 20 years. Railways, museums whatever in this day and age have to be run as a business. And the people you have to deal with to get things done are only - in the main - interested in dealing with organisations run like businesses with businesslike long term plans. They don't want to deal with outfits whose whole approach may change depending on an impassioned speech at the AGM.

This inevitably upsets the more romantic of people in supporters groups and the like.

To which I would say, because I have been there - do you really want someone else to build 'your' railway without any involvement from yourself at all? Or are you prepared to swallow your pride and do what you are told in the hope it will help make the enterprise a success?

 

Been a long time coming......

 

Forgive me for asking, but I feel I need some clarification on this matter - could somebody answer the following questions without resorting to 'committee speak' please?

1). What are the stated aims of Penrhyn Quarries Ltd. as regards the railway?
2). What are/were the stated aims of the Penrhyn Quarry Railway Society as regards the railway?
3). What was said / happened at the AGM to cause Penrhyn Quarries Ltd. to disassociate themselves with the Penrhyn Quarry Railway Society.

I'd love to be able to support the project (if indeed there is a project at all) but frankly I can't understand what on earth is going on! - perhaps somebody would be good enough to answer my questions in plain English.

Thanks in advance
Chris

 

If you are genuinely interested in supporting the project I suggest you ask the groups directly or better still visit the site and talk to those involved on the ground and draw your own conclusions.... joining a forum and posting one post asking a load of pseudonyms for advice is hardly going to yield anything positive...

 

Peter - I have asked the society directly, in fact in person, and have not had any answers. I'm assuming that you're not prepared to address any of my questions, which surely renders this public forum useless doesn't it?

How can one discuss the issues on this forum if the interested parties aren't transparent in terms of their points of view?

Might I suggest that if the people concerned start talking to people and answering questions posed by people who have a genuine interest then they might garner a little more support? - you're effectively dead in the water as a society if you don't engage the public.

Care to answer my questions? - you surely have the answers.

Chris

Edited to add: I wasn't asking for 'advice', just answers to questions. I can then draw my own conclusions from the information provided, and if none is provided then that will surely affect my judgement.

 

Apologies for interrupting, just a quick update. We held our first supporters day last Saturday. Weather turned out great, all those who attended thoroughly enjoyed themselves.
Not sure if this is the correct thread to post this in, but I don't think there is any point starting a new thread because we are only a ikle project at the moment.
All the best

Ellis G Morey

 

it seems the PQR website has been hacked..... again.
Why oh why do these idiots do it? Sour grapes?

 

Probably not. It does put the PQRS in a difficult position. Do they carry on as previously and risk alienating the railway even more or take the financial hit of having stock they feel they cannot sell?

Penrhynfan

 

I'm not aware that the railway has made their point of view known on this forum or other public means.

Could it not be that the PQRS are reluctant to say too much, if anything, not to inflame what is apparently a delicate situation?

Penrhynman

 

(Questions 1 & 2 snipped.)

I can answer 3).
The members present were asked by the railway to expel a Society member on the basis that he had brought the railway into disrepute. No evidence was presented by the railway for the allegations and the membership refused to do so. Within a week, the railway then carried out their threat to start a new support organisation and not permitting the PQRS to support them.

Penrhynfan