the future of A2 Blue Peter ???

Must have missed the news that wcrc had bought 45690.......

 

As ADB968008 says, Blue Peter is a very marketable loco.

 

They haven't, but it's based at Carnforth...

 

So are 34067 and 45231!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So what.

60532 is named after a horse, named after a nautical term, and the TV program is named after the term.. most people know neither, but have heard of the name.. which is whats worth the wonga.

Tornado is not a war department engine.. but its name is shared with a large part of our armed forces. The link is tenuous.. the newspaper column inches that pay for it are not.
46203 is a very comparable engine to 60532 in many ways.. but's relationship to the public, hence it's marketable value to the paying public, ergo resale value is much less.
You could compare many other "dormant / previously restored" class 8s.. 35005, 6024, 6000... at the end of the day it's peoples familiarity and the ability to relate to it that provides the premium.. a BBC TV program sharing the name of 60532 will do just that and so it's worth more... someone will some day pay it.

 

Whilst they may ONLY share a name, the programme viewers were invited to support the appeal to overhaul the locomotive in the 1970s and - I suspect - many contributors will still be interested in the fate of the locomotive. It's a pity that the BBC hasn't picked up on the loco's fate as that interest may inspire more action re overhaul and restoration to main line action.

 

I remember seeing an article a few years back which involved a then Blue Peter presenter (Zoe Salmon I believe) I think remove something from 60532 which was meant to signal the start of its overhaul but that was around 2009 (after 60532 was repainted Apple Green anyway).

Can't remember exact details. Again I would love to see her in steam as well. My Grandad has had the pleasure of a run on the S&C with her whereas I have yet to even see her (I think unless she was at the NYMR when I visited in Autumn 1998 but don't remember seeing her).

 

My personal involvement is that I travelled behind her when she powered the final 10:30 SO Edinburgh - Aberdeen service on 27 August 1966; the person seen hanging out of the window as the train exited Mound Tunnel into Princes St Gardens was me and I was fortunate enough to end my holiday the following weekend travelling to York on 4 September behind 60019 on its final BR working out of Scotland.

 

I had 3 main line trips with 60532; a return run over the S&C in 1993, her first run back out on the big railway after the 'Durham incident' and her final main line outing in 2001.Wonderful locomotive.

Also had several runs with her on the NYMR.

As I understand it, she needs a new middle cylinder casting. Yes, the pattern is available, I believe, as the A1 Trust needed one for 60163, but it's still a large lump of cash for a private owner to find. Last time I saw her was whilst she was in Darlington Museum, still in Brunswick Green livery; there were several large rusty areas in need of sorting out, hopefully they were treated when she was put back into Apple Green. At least she's under cover at Barrow Hill.

I agree with earlier posts; Blue Peter is one locomotive whose name can 'ring a bell' with many folk, but as things stand, she's going nowhere soon. I too regard the price paid for 4472/60103 as something that has probably affected the expectations of the owners. A pity, but we are where we are.

 

I see no reason the number of Blue Peter viewers need to wane in the future. Today's youngsters will be replaced by the next generation. It's up to the program makers to keep the show current and vibrant.
Don't forget even the name Tornado reflects what will become an outdated war bird like Halifax or Lancaster.

 

Hasn't it been shunted on to CBBC and is now only once a week? I'm sure it doesn't get the audiences it used to.

How many people relate the name Tornado to the plane rather than the weather condition?

 

The 4472/60532 Price comparison is a litle tenuous. but the NRM et al paid what they paid regardless of the condition of the locomotive because its a national icon, a celebrity and a ready made 'Brand'. Blue Peter, if its anything other than a locomotive it is so to a far lesser extent. Knowing that 5 million pounds plus of the nations money has gone on 4472 has made a few people ask whether it was worth it. The knowledge that 3 Million pounds plus of someones private money would be required to own and restore 60532 may seem like value for money in comparison ... but then its only a Locomotive and you could get a new one built for that.

 

the Blue Peter TV connection has been tried at least twice and frankly hasn't worked. A much more sellable brand should be Princess Elizabeth, but that doesn't seem to be newsworthy either does it? Or Indeed Britannia...

The main problem with trying to exploit the TV angle is that it is a kids programme and they have no money generally

 

The 4472/60532 link may be tenuous to folk like us, but to those not so 'au fait' with these things, then a link to a, shall we say, 'hopeful' valuation is easy to make.

 

The Drury family ought to have a reasonable idea of what an LNER pacific that's not Flying Scotsman is really worth. IIRC, they sold Bittern to Jeremy Hosking, which I think was the only other time one has changed hands in modern times.

I've been trying to think of other comparable loco sales in the last 10 years. Two that come to mind are 35005 - sold to the MHR in need of intermediate overhaul - and Britannia, which needed a full overhaul.

Values today should be rather lower than pre-2008, partly because of the financial slump and partly because the cost and aggravation-factor of running a big loco on the mainline have increased a lot.

 

True, but parents will walk into the room and perhaps see it, to say nothing of if the child is interested and will then talk about for the next few days. Why are there money lending adverts and PPI adverts on kids channels - for the same reason I suppose, it's the only reason I can ever think of...

 

Well Mr Hat, I've read all your post and am none the wiser as to why any agreement with the A1 Trust would be such a bad thing. Perhaps you'd care to explain in a concisefashion please. (By the way this is entirely my view, and nothing to do with the A1 Trust.)

 

I think the Drurys sold it to the late Tony Marchington (who's company subsequently sold it to Jeremy Hosking in the early 2000s) in the late 1990s (when he owned Flying Scotsman) so I suppose the prices will have changed quite a bit since then.

 

My last post was to just sum up the options for the engine and how given some dont see how the market for engines is moving, if Blue Peter isnt restored soon it will loose its place in the market and have to work harder to be returned.

With regards a return with the A1 Trust, my reasons would be;

1. There track record is not as great as some think. First of all while managing to build the locomotive and assemble it at Darlington from the bits already made by contract, is a great feat its also understandable that a new group would have teething issues and make errors in commissioning.
2. The Trust itself isnt as forthcoming as it can be. Covernentors decisions are often overruled, it was requested in Brunswick first, it came in Apple Green, a blatent attempt to piggy back on Joe Publics idea that big engines are named and apple green. Better examples are that news on repairs, tours and information is often scarse forcing others to try and figure out whats going on.
3. Operation - while the DB issues havent helped massively, WCRC was right to refuse Tornado, but in doing so its ruled out a lot of work, now the engine has none. A lot of this leads to DB, but impacts on Tornados ability to operate.
4. Money - covernentors are still paying for the engine, after its built. The bond has been repaid, but only early due to a massive legacy being given, if not it would have been on time, or given the ammount of revenue from tours in the future could even have been late. Thank god its happened when it has. However, now we find the tender isnt paid for and theres a fund to get that sorted. The support coach came from yet another appeal and fund. This for an engine thats built and has a huge ability to get revenue from sales assosiated with the engine and is working tours and visiting galas at cost. So given all the money raised and flowing in - wheres it all going? Its not long before the next overhaul and wait for it... another appeal. Surely the group is awash with the stuff... Questions on this take you back to issue 2.

Of course, in general the A1 Trust is actually very good at operating Tornado. In many ways the group does show what some preservation groups need to adopt and model themselves on, especially the new build teams. A lot of factors have been beyond the control of the A1 Trust, like DB crewing and now having little to do on the mainline, but tweaks to try and improve the design, most of which are effective and the trusts operation rather than the engine itself, lead me to think it would be better for the A2 to fall under the operation of another team on the network, such as WCRC itself, Ian Riley engineering, 45305 group or a wealthy benefactor similar to the tune of Cameron or Hoskins. I respect that others will disagree with much of that as questioning Tornado is almost akin to treason to some enthusiasts, but if things change for in the future as I would hope they do to benefit the engine and those assosiated with it, then my view will also change accordingly.

 

i am sorry david but what has that above missive on TORNADO got to do with BLUE PETER? seems a lot of irrelevant drivel to me.

cheers,
julian