Flying Scotsman

Went on two tours with FS in the late 70's - my first real memorable experience of mainline steam haulage, and I hold her (and Messrs Pegler and Hinchcliffe) personally responsible for the shed loads of cash, time and effort that I've expended on this ridiculous fixation ever since. Hasten back you Apple Green beauty

 

My last encounter with her was 10 years ago. I was kindly offered two free tickets on the VSOE Christmas diner trains by a friend. As I could pick my date, I naturally chose one of the steam-hauled trips. Ironically, only a few days before, I had said to my wife that I wouldn't want to take her on the Surrey Hills circuit (not really thinking of a VSOE working - there were some other much less expensive trains running on that route at the time) as it was't really a very exciting trip from the performance point of view until after the Shalford stop. I also had never been excited about 4472's hybrid condidtion - Apple green livery but with the double chimney and smoke deflectors. However the two free tickets were sufficient to overcome my reservations on both these fronts!

The food was marvellous, and the dash down the bank from Gomshall to Dorking was pretty exciting, but I can remember looking at 4472's curved nameplate just before we boarded the train at Victoria. My No. 1 favourite railway is not the LNER, and I've already mentioned my previous lack of enthusiasm for "Scotsman" in the condition she was in at the time, but as I looked at that nameplate and read the words FLYING SCOTSMAN, I couldn't help feeling that there is something indefinably special about the sole surviving A3, even though I can't put it into words. I too am therefore pleased that it looks like a return to steam is finally a real possibility.

 

No, but I'm not going to discuss which contractor I used, it isn't relevant (other than to say that I was very happy with his workmanship and would use him again).

 

Sadly, lines in the sand get washed away by the next high tide.

Most of the speculation on this thread and others is due to lack of information. I note several posters saying keep quiet, back off, hope NRM make like Carnforth etc, but personally, I'd say you have more chance of a quiet life if regular information were to be provided.

 

Totally agree- a bit of transparency would do no harm at all, might put right some of the poor PR on behalf of the NRM that has cropped up in the past year or so and stop the endless speculation. Its the National Railway Museum not GCHQ! Scotsman is a national treasure whereas Galatea and Carnforth are privately owned and their privacy is their perogative.

 

Private or public, speculation is fostered by lack of information. It wouldn't hurt Carnforth to be a bit more open too, whether they have the right to remain silent or not.

 

A lot of people on this web site have a lack of information on there profile, so what's wrong with Carnforth for not being open. well they have the right to be silent if they want to be. FISH7373 81C .

 

Blimy all this talk of "you have a right to remain silent" makes it sound like the NRM and Carnforth are in the dock,
there are somethings best kept out of the public arena,as regards Carnforth we do find out eventually when they have completed a restoration, it tends to take a run out on NR, The NRM,however is a different case, being owned by us, i would expect a certain level of openess, but then we dont need all the daily happenings, unless its noteworthy, for instance , "Today we steamed Lode Star" lol

 

What I actually said about Carnforth was "I WOULDN'T MIND", it was only a personal thing. My reason? all this speculation and to some extent mis information doesn't help or do anybody any good. Discuss livery, German style deflectors, chimneys by all means.

 

Openness on the reason for engineering decisions being made would be a good start. Although I would like to be wrong, I question the ability of the NRM to made optimum engineering decisions. I wonder if that lack of competence might be the reason for lack of openness. Had I spent millions of the public purse buying something that still needs significantly more spent on it because of poor decisions made previously, I think I would be rather coy too.
I fear we will not have seen the end of its woes even once the cylinder/frame question has been answered despite what we've been told.
Today a missing split pin or an incorrect type of fixing can be a cause of FTR failure. Just suppose for a moment it was all put back together, in steam and the wrong type of rivets were found, by an eagle eyed inspector, in a critical component that needed the boiler or wheels to come out to be changed.
Methinks yet another big bill for the taxpayer to pick-up.

 

Given the amount of work done on the locomotive by IR, boiler, frame stretchers and now cylinders and final alignment there will be no stones left unturned. Given his record I don't think there is any reason for concern.

The NRM had a plan, parts of it worked out; the boiler for example, and yes they were quite right to restore the A3 type boiler since they are a museum and already have an A4 type and the A3 type is hisorically important.

As to the chassis saga, that was and remains a saga. Nearly at the end now, but the history of this engine is just so complicated it would be just about impossible to piece the full story together.

By the time the work is completed 4472 will look like a typical A3 of the 1930s, it is after all what Alan Pegler wanted. I, and I suspect many others, will happily settle for that.

 

Not only casting doubts on their abilities but also going against 45407's & 44871's maintenance record which is simply sublime compared to others, take a look at this years GB tour for evidence! Their track record for returning engines to working order is second to none, I'm sure there are numerous customers to back this up, 34046, the B12 and more recently the Dinmore Manor group who have just received their boiler back in the last few days.

I for one am looking forward to seeing Scotsman return to a running standard that it probably hasn't seen for some 50 odd years!

 

Good grief - yes, I said that they could remain silent if they wish, I just think they would get better PR if they gave a bit of info now and then. OK, so they don't agree, fine.

Not a chance. That's the foreign country Mr Coulls is talking about, so forget the witch hunt.

A monthly or Bi weekly report on progress at Rileys would be most helpful in stemming the speculation about the present state of the loco and how the completion is progressing.

 

HST page...Mallards next...

I just missed seeing Scotsman before she left for Riley's works, I changed the day from of going to the NRM (to accommodate going with my Dad to see the Great Gathering) from the Monday to the Wednesday so missed her. I hope nothing untoward is found in the frame examination and look forward to seeing her in a few years time, back in steam and back where she belongs working on the mainline.

 

I've never really noticed more information stopping speculation, as what usually seems to follow is an avalanche of further speculation about what parts of the information are inaccurate/lies/misleading/can be read between the lines/umpteen other options.

Sometimes its easier just to ignore the nonsense and get on with the important parts of the job, especially if one wishes to preserve one's sanity.

 

There is NO reason for concern as the loco is in very capable hands indeed and you are correct, no stones will be left unturned. I just wish others get the message too and let the relevant parties get on with the job in hand. What has happened in the past especially prior to two or more years ago, therefore cannot be changed and lessons have been learnt from it. Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

Hmm... Interesting. That's not how I remember them from the early 1970s. My first visit to a steam railway (other than Poole Park) was to the VoR in Sept 1972. At that time, all the locos were plain, unlined rail blue with painted (or perhaps decal) white double-arrows on the tank-sides. They still carried the cast brass name- and number-plates, I think, on the tank and cab-sides respectively. Buffer beams were normal steam-loco red, and I think the numbers were painted on the front buffer beam in yellow - but I'm not certain of that. No yellow warning panels anywhere.

But we digress...!

It's good to know that work on FS has started again, and I'm quite confident Ian Riley's boys will do a proper job on her.

Perhaps it's time to think about what work she'll do once the overhaul is finally complete? I'm looking forward to Barrow Hill's much-postponed A1, A2, A3, A4 line-up, which I suggest should be FS's first major event away from the NRM - assuming Blue Peter is still there and that Tornado and a Streak can be booked for a suitable date.