Large England vs Small England

Hello,

I understand that 'Welsh Pony', being a Large England locomotive, is larger than the other George England locomotives of the Ffestiniog. Does anyone have the dimensions of this locomotive or, even better, could point me in the direction of some full drawings?

Thanks in advance,

Ben

 

Welsh Pony has a larger boiler, longer wheel base(Wheel base of 5ft compared to 4ft 6in) larger wheels (2ft 2in compared to 2ft) and saddle tank instead of side tanks.

 

Thank you, so after the 'Small England' locomotives were rebuilt with saddle tanks are they to the same dimensions as Welsh Pony's?

Thanks,

Ben

- My first post should have said 'Hello', not 'Hell'!

 

No, I don't think so - They just gained saddle tanks and cabs - other dimensions remained as far as I am aware. For more details perhaps start with Ffestipedia - http://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/FR_Locomotives

Steve B

 

The recently published book on the subject might be of use: http://www.national-preservation.co...-locomotives-of-the-festiniog-railway.150851/

 

Thank you, I have that book and it is great as a photographic resource

Ben

 

I cannot find a reference to the overall length of Welsh Pony, I have Prince's overall length from the FR drawing books.

Ben

 

Ben,

If you look at pages 9 and 10 in the George England book, you'll find a detailed description of the differences between the Small and Large Englands. You'll also find more detailed descriptions of how the individual locomotives evolved over time. The truth is each locomotive was unique within a few years of its initial construction and although they converged on a similar overall design by the end, they each had substantially differing dimensions.

Dan

 

Thank you Dan, I will do that I was looking at the individual locomotive pages.

Cheers,

Ben

 

For specific measurements (e.g. Pony's length) we have extremely accurate 3D measurements taken when we laser-scanned the four remaining locos. We're finalizing the 3D CAD models now, from which we'll be printing models. There are plans afoot for a modeller's book which will include accurate plans of all four locos. Stay tuned for further details

Dan

 

Debating the size differences as far as tractive effort is concerned is a bit pointless these days. The small englands had larger tires fitted, cylinders bored out, boiler pressures raised, and so on and so on. The main difference remaining is in the wheelbase which also means the boiler barrel is longer too.

There are numerous other detail improvements such as loco style rods and rod ends with split brasses, rather than the marine patten on the earlier locos, disc wheels instead of spoked, and a Bigger cab. Palmerston of course had a much smaller and shorter cab than the other engines so feels particularly small in comparison. The rear dragbox is a different design as well although still attached to the firebox.

Tim

 

The reason for starting this thread was I have some drawings of the rebuilt 'Prince' and wondered if, making allowances for the different wheels and wheelbase amongst a few other differences, I could make a basic model of 'Welsh Pony'.

Which, from your advice, it seems I can

Thank you all,

Ben