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7027

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Stuart.b, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. Steamboat Bill

    Steamboat Bill New Member

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    That's an interesting site! I have been trying to find a list of the engines stabled at 10A as steam finished, but so far without any luck. You look like someone who might know where I point myself to find out?
     
  2. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    Going back to the future of 7027, I can't imagine it will ever be used as the basis of another new build.

    At the moment, there has been some speculation on the future of the Waterman fleet (see the "Crewe Heritgage centre for sale" thread http://www.national-preservation.com/threads/crewe-heritage-centre-for-sale.32900/page-13), because nothing much seems to be happening to Mr Waterman's own engines. 5224 and 5553 do not appear to have been touched since withdrawal and the 6634 project on the SVR has gone quiet. While I have no inside information, logically one of three things will happen:- either these engines will eventually be returned to working order under the present ownsership (And this will include 7027), they will be restored cosmetically or else they will eventually be sold. If the latter option is what transpires, I could well imaging a buyer coming out of the woodwork to buy 7027 and restore it to working order. It is probably the last chance for anyone to buy a Castle, as none of the other seven are likely to change hands (4073 owned by the NRM, 4079 and 5051 by the GWS, 5043, 5080 and 7029 by Tyseley and 5029 by Jeremy Hosking)
     
  3. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    This same site will do this. Just type Carnforth in the quick search box and it will give you a load of info about Carnforth's allocations since 1948. Look in July 1968 for what you want - Aug. 68 just shows 70013 and a host of diesel shunters.

    Hope this helps

    Peter james
     
  4. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I can understand 7027 being the way it is because it's a long and expensive restoration, but I do find it strange that 5224 and 5553, being complete and just requiring overhauls are languishing about, when they could be out earning hire fee's, seems odd for a loco owner that no obvious moves are happening to get at least one back in traffic.
     
  5. Stuart666

    Stuart666 New Member

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    Id not actually tried that till you pointed it out, but yes it does. It also puts in a handy link to streetmap so you know where and what particular shed it is they are talking about. Even more handy than I thought!
     
  6. stevegcr

    stevegcr New Member

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    I dont see it as strange that neither loco is being worked on :-

    1, Is there any spare capacity at Crewe for the work to be done ?
    2, Where would the loco's run once overhauled, maybe waiting for a railway to want to hire them ?
     
  7. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    You could have a point on #1, but I can't believe there woulden't be lines interested in hiring a Small Prairie if available.
     
  8. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    The Spa Valley, for one, would have been interested in hiring 5553 if it was in working order.
     
  9. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    5224 & 5553 were never short of work when operable. Plenty of lines are needing to hire in for peak periods and these locos would fit the bill perfectly. 5224 in particular would pull just about anything, anywhere. There are some lines such as the Wensleydale and Mid Norfolk that are entirely reliant on hired in power for summer operations. I think there is a big market for people to restore and hire, I have always thought this is something Didcot should look at more.
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    There is definitely a good market for hire locos of the right sizes. The big problem with anyone doing this is servicing them when things don't go according to plan. It is one thing overhauling a loco at a base, it is another keeping it serviceable several hundred miles away.
     
  11. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    There's also the question of whether what railways are willing to pay in hire fees truly covers the cost of maintenance and eventual overhaul - and that is if the loco owner is content to just break even.
     
  12. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    No one seriously keeps a steam loco to make a profit these days :)
     
  13. Steamboat Bill

    Steamboat Bill New Member

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    I would very much doubt that any loco owner is aiming to "break even"; perhaps not to spend too much, but that's not quite the same thing. I wonder how many loco owners are 'in it for the money'? Precious few, I'd stake a fortune on it - that's what it costs to keep these beasts in running condition. And if you see the fortune you originally had before getting involved in steam loco preservation dwindling away, what do you do? I could well imagine this is the question facing Peter Waterman.
     
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    … which makes me wonder whether PW feels that doing work for other people at Crewe at (presumably) full cost is a rather better deal than restoring his own engines if the hire fees don't actually cover the cost of overhauls - at least all the time he has plenty of work from other people. Would be silly to turn down paying work from other customers because capacity was used restoring his own fleet - at least, on the assumption that LNWR (Heritage) is being run as a genuinely commercial concern (and I have no reason to assume it isn't).

    Tom
     
  15. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Or just the simple pragmatic approach of saving the work on his own locomotives for when the works are quiet, rather than expanding unsustainably when business is good and then having to lay people off when business is quiet. A much more responsible employment policy IMHO than recklessly hiring and firing all the time.
     
  16. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    I would suggest "can just about afford" is more accurate than "willing" - indeed, I believe that there have been a number of instances where railways pay out more than they really afford, certainly across a period of time, for loco hire and I also sense a hefty dose of reality is hitting one or two. The results may seem boring to enthusiasts, but would they find fewer Railway more boring?

    I have said before that there is no such thing as "the cost of an overhaul" in a general sense. Each loco needs different work and the mix of contractors, own staff and volunteers deployed affects cost in a big way. However, I do think people, as is usual, are ready to quote the overhaul costs they noticed because of how big they are and not look at the larger number of overhauls that cost considerably less, or whether the well known (notorious?) high cost overhauls are "once in a lifetime" as opposed to the cost "every 10 years".

    I think the bigger challenge for those hiring locos is managing to keep a constant supply of work and income. By no means all heritage lines run daily for long periods, and those that do are more likely to be aiming to provide the bulk of their motive power themselves. Mainline work, whilst perhaps paying more per day, is much less frequent and also involves a lot of input from the owners, whereas heritage line hires are unlikely to be 3am starts and 1am the next day finish for the loco and support crew, and may not even require any owner's personnel to be present (although a number of owners prefer to have reps on the footplate if at all possible).

    Given that steam locomotive boilers need stripping out and in most cases lifting for full internal and external inspection every 10 years or so, there is a lot to be said for a view from one owners a few years back that it was the total income per year that really was his main concern and he was willing to allow some flexibility as to how much usage in a deal that meant he knew pretty well how much he was getting for the year as a whole.

    Steven
     
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  17. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Another Pete Waterman project, ex-SAR Garratt 109, has been moved to the WHR for storage because work has stopped on it and it is taking up too much space at Crewe. It was being rebuilt by apprentices that were government-funded, but the money for them dried up. It doesn't bode well for 7027, 5224, 5553 or 49385 by the sounds of it.
     
  18. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    49395 is an NRM loco. Waterman only sponsored the overhaul and LNWR were managing it whilst it was in service. I would think that once its ticket is up it will revert back to NRM management.
     
  19. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I'm not sure if that is entirely true. PW has a bit of a thing about the cost of the overhaul, which was far more than the original budget, and I think he still feels it "owes" him a further spell of use, so there could be a dispute.
     
  20. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Part of the furniture

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    PW once told me that 7027 was his favourite loco as he fired it when he was based at Oxley.
    By the way what is the current status of 6634 ?
     

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