Lineside Photography and Personal Track Safety

Whilst I have no argument at all with the need for anyone allowed access to the lineside on heritage railways to have a current Personal Track Safety (PTS) accreditation as a pre-requisite to the granting of a lineside permit, it now seems to be the rule that those railways who do now require lineside pass applicants to have a PTS will not accept a valid PTS from another heritage line.

I had to attend a course and take an exam for my current PTS for the West Somerset Railway, and I am now informed that I have to invest time and money in attending another course and take another exam if I want to acquire a PTS for the Severn Valley Railway. I shall certainly be very interested in seeing what differences there may be, if any, in the content of the two courses and exams, not least because it is deemed necessary that I will have to repeat the process every three years at each line to maintain my PTS certifications.

It would be interesting to compare notes with anyone who has met the PTS requirements of two or more lines to see if any differences can really justify the need for multiple PTS certifications. I would expect that it is only restrictions on where you can't go that are likely to differ from line to line.

It would also be interesting to quantify the economic impact of the introduction of a PTS requirement. I have certainly noticed that the costs to my own pocket will increase, but the other side of the coin is the net change to revenue of the lines concerned. How many existing permit holders don't bother to renew because of the costs of attending a PTS course at a line that is far from one's home?

Does anyone else have anything to add?

Cheers,

 

Have not renewed my pass this year for the SVR as the PTS costs along with membership fees, and lineside fees have sky rocketed. Last year i payed 50.00 for my membership and lineside pass which was reasonable. It's a shame the railway can't send out a paper PTS test which you have to complete and get a certain amount of questions right to qualify for a pass. Even though i'm only 45 mins from the SVR i just don't have the time to go and sit a test that proves i know how to act on a speed restricted single line ! And if any preserved line should need a PTS course i'd say it's the GCR as it's the one of the most busiest privatized lines in the country, and they just send you a dvd to watch !

 

£50? Be happy with that. I've just paid for my mainline ac/dc lines PTS.

 

Sorry, but this is only right. Not every railway operates to the same rulebook. Whilst in principle most things are the same, in reality each railway has it's own differences and also some features that are unique. Great Central for example does not have a single-bore tunnel like Llangollen, and likewise Llangollen does not have double track. This is why you are required to learn the rules for each individual railway, as a railway's rulebook is adapted to cover what is on their railway.

We did have a big discussion on this a few years ago;
http://www.national-preservation.com/threads/pts-for-lineside-passes.33812/

 

Could these tests be done via the computer or is it too difficult to set up? Would take away the need to travel to the railway and save the individual some money which he could then spend at the railway.

 

This is certainly the way in which I would like to see things done when a PTS is deemed necessary. I work in IT and have to do quite a bit of training that is mandated by my employer. These days most of it is done on-line, including any end of course tests, which means that I can undertake the training at a time and place that is convenient to me without incurring any out of pocket expenses. I did note that, in the covering letter received from the SVR, it was stated that they hoped to do renewals on-line in the future, so that will be a step in the right direction when it comes.

Thanks for the reminder of that discussion. It was interesting reading!
Whilst individual lines may will have their own specific rulebooks, it must surely be true that there is a substantial amount of content that is common between most, if not all lines? This is why I shall be looking for an emphasis on SVR specific content in their PTS course and especially in their exam. It would be fair to say that I would feel somewhat aggrieved if both turned out to be pretty much the same as the content of the course and particularly the exam I undertook at the WSR two years ago.
Cheers,

 

At Bo'ness, we have a requirement now for PTS. However, Network Rail/TOC supplied PTS and those from Strathspey Railway are accepted by so negating the need for those under such categories to sit yet another exam.

To cover the operational differences we then have from our Highland equivalents or the mainline, working members are then required to undertake a 'Rules' exam so to become familiar with the local working procedures and the structure of our own railway. Could this not be implemented as a nationwide scheme. PTS covers those railways who have opted in, with an 'Rules' exam which could be undertaken either in person or online?

 

old chestnut, basic rule should be those railways who wish to go down the pts route of one standard national railway test, and then provide a local rule sheet when you pony up the cash to a new line. Don't see the point in a local test, as the basic rules should cover most issues, it simply case of don't walk over that bridge, don't cross the line at this point and don't go in the tunnels. Llangollen is an interesting one to bring up as there is no line side available to my knowledge. However have a national PTS should not make must for all lines, mast lines are single track with simple stations, use the basic ticket operation and as such once the train has passed you know there is nothing allowed down that section until the next available passage, as such people usually move just after the train has passed and are waiting for at least ten minutes before the next one is due, so as long as they have taken up a safe position in practice there is very little danger as long as people abide by the basic safety rules. GCR is another ball game to some extant as I did witness this weekend cases of compliancy, people taking shots with their back to the traffic to close to the line while a train passed in the other direction, which is exactly what happened a few years ago.

 

I don't understand what you are trying to say here ???????

Unless they are in direct communication with a signalbox controlling a relevant section, anyone walking or working trackside can never be sure as to when and in which direction the next train will run. There are several reasons why a train or engine can turn up expectantly. For example unscheduled or late running, an unscheduled engineering train, empty carriage stock, the consequences of a train divided in section, or a light engine undertaking a line examination.

Anyone acting in the manner you describe are a danger to themselves and other people.

Chris

 

Just because someone holds a PTS for one railway should not give someone carte blanche to assume that they know how to behave on other railways. Some railways have very specific reasons for not issuing lineside passes. Foxfield, for instance, does not issue lineside passes at all due to the very restricted nature of the railway with lots of limited clearances and barely 6ft to the fences in many places and takes a very strict view on trespass as a result of these problems.

I also have to agree with Axe above that anyone turning up expecting that they can just wander about as they see fit is a liability to both themselves and others. Anyone wishing to go lineside should make themselves known to and seek approval and advice from the relevant staff on duty as to the local restrictions and notices and any potential train movements.

 

I can't see the excitement about lineside passes as many - most? - of the good shots are away from the lineside IMO.

 

I don't drive, so with my experience on the Bo'ness and Kinneil Railway, Lineside walking is sometimes the quickest way to photospots.

 

Who's going to manage/control this? You need someone to ensure the basic PTS is fit for purpose, and then ensure that the Local Rules Exam also meet all that is required. Network Rail and all contractors use Sentinel, but I'll tell you now the £50 moaned about in the very first post will be loose change compared to what will be asked for by Sentinel!

As was discussed in the previous thread, whilst it be nice to have a controlled database to allow lineside access at numeorus railways the practicalities of setting it up and then managing afterwards is just too much for something that has a limited customer base.

By the sound of it Local Agreements between individual railway like Bo'ness and Strathspey described above) is one solution, but again who's going to set up?

 

That I don't disagree with and that's why I had a Bluebell pass - a handy route between certain locations. Years ago when passes were either not needed or readily available on the day, most of my shots were from inside the fence but now I like to explore the more distant vantage points, I don't see the value in obtaining a pass.

 

Oh yes indeed, it's very rare I take shots within the fence ( that may also be due to my PTS expiring 6 months ago! ), but it's far easier to get off at Manuel and walk down the line to the viaduct, and over into the field and walk far enough back for the distant vantage point, than to walk from Bo'ness to the viaduct via Linlithgow by road.....

I imagine I would do the same with a GCR lineside pass. There are some certain shots I would love to do within the fence ( e.g Swithland signal box ), but there are quite a few shots I would like to do from a distance but without the facility of driving, the railway is the shortest route.

 

Network Rail have a common PTS for all their types of line, be they single track branches or multi-track main lines. AFAIK the only tailoring is for AC or DC electrification, for which there are additional constraints. The difficulty with any common approach for heritage lines is in agreeing the degree of commonality between them, to set the rules that apply to all, and then finding and funding a body to administer any such pan-heritage line scheme. Individual lines will always have local differences that will need participants to have some additional local qualification. NR can address local safety issues e.g. 'no go' areas with limited clearances, by a proper safety briefing from the person in charge at the start of a lineside visit and a dedicated, suitably qualified, person can be appointed to look out for a group. On NR only those with the additional IWA (Individual Working Alone) qualification are allowed on the lineside by themselves. Those wishing to wander around our heritage railways almost invariably want to go on their own, even if they then congregate at various points, and, in my albeit limited experience, pay scant regard to any warnings shouted by others. I'm not entirely convinced that such lineside access is a good idea, even where speed is only 25mph.

Jeffers

 

Better not go abroad then where heritage lines are unfenced and lineside access open to all. In spite of this people seem to avoid being slaughtered in their thousands.

 

Should have been must and not mast. Going back to my point it was you can only have one train in one section at a time, for instence at KWVR, with two traisn running there can only be one train in each section, as such if it has passed a train must return before another can enter that section. Not that I saying you can ther efor wonder around without taking the usual pracations and checks, however I simply pointing out in practice using the token system the risk level at most railways ,provide you follow the safefty rules is relatively low as people are in general only walking around when a train has just passed and another can not arrive for a period of time giving you ample time to relocate. As a general rule I like to be in position at least five to ten minutes before any train is due, what with setting the tripod etc, unlike people who take still shot you can not simply grab you camera and take a shot, yes I know there is more to good shot than that, however arriving at the last minute means no shot as it take to long to get setup with video.

 

Not universally true though - even with single track, (and depending on the exact signalling configuration), if one train goes through a section in, say, the "up" direction, the next train may return the other way ("down") or could be a second train in the "up" direction. So just because you have seen a train go from A to B, you don't know if the next one is going from B to A or is another service from A to B.

Tom