Sat 15th March, The Cumbrian Ranger.

The timings look implausible for a steam hauled Crewe to Carlisle via the S&C journey. They are virtually the same as the much shorter and quicker WCML via Shap timings.
Logistically it's almost 50 miles to Farington Jc, say an hour allowing for the slowing to cross over. Then it's 11 miles to Blackburn that will probably take nearer 20 minutes than 15. The Summer Cumbrian Mountain Expresses timings are then an hour for the 25 miles down to Hellifield GL, then almost 2 hours running time is scheduled for the remaining 76 miles to Carlisle.
Doesn't look possible even using REG or Bittern's second tender.

 

Errrrm. What timings are you looking at? The provisional timings that I (as in VINTAGE TRAINS) have in my hand are most managable.

I do love the speculation - it is most entertaining. BUT when it is presented as FACT as above....all it does is make our phones ring when we should be using the time to work through a problem!

 

Perhaps if you were to publish your timings Ben it would stop the 'Know All-Know Nothing Brigade' that are on this site and give them a day off

 

As soon as they are confirmed and accepted, I am sure they will magically appear on UK Steam!

Until then, I challenge 1020Sherman to please divulge the times he has dug-up.

Carlisle Departure: ?
Appleby Arr/Dep: ?/?
Hellified GL Arr/Dep: ?/?
Crewe Arr/Dep: ?/?

I would love to know where his have come from and what they are......

 

From the tickets with the letter. It says Crewe Platform 12 (Arr/Dep) 0836/0915, Carlisle 1241. That allows 3 hours 26 minutes for the journey doesn't it? All I said was the timings seemed implausible looking at the timings from previous trains, particularly from Blackburn to Carlisle. Why so touchy Ben? and where does it mention it's a fact or that the timings apply to Saturday?

 

I am touchy because everytime someone posts something speculative on here about this trip, I get half a dozen phone calls from passengers expressing their concern and wanting more information than I am able to give at this moment.

From the times we sent out yesterday:
Crewe Departure: 09:15
Carlisle Arrival: 12:41
That is close to 3 1/2 hours over Shap but does include a 30 minute water-stop at Carnforth.

I am currently showing a provisional return from Carlisle to Crewe via S&C taking just under 5 hours with a stop at Appleby and Hellifield GL.

These times seem doable to me, West Coast, NetRail and LocoServices......so where exactly is your expert concern?

 

I think the reason 1020 Shireman is concerned about the times is because the tour was, and indeed still is, advertised as running out via S&C and back over Shap.

The tour is now the other way round, as the timings suggest - 3 1/2 hours Crewe to Carlisle is about an hour to 90 mins too short for going via S&C but correct for going via Shap. So before you jump down a customer's throat, maybe consider why they are querying what is written on the ticket letter.

 

Ben

Your website states out via S & C and return via Shap.
From what you have stated it is out via Shap and return S & C.
This is where the confusion has arisen. Not on the trip so do not know what the letter states.

Paul

Edit 5944 beat me to it.

 

Maybe the direction of travel has changed if the motive power has had an enforced switch to the wcr pool due to unresolved A4 issues at Carlisle.
With apologies to Ben for indulging in idle speculation but it is a discussion forum.

 

Good job Ben doesn't run this forum, otherwise it would be called the "National Keep It To Your Self Preservation Forum" ha ha.

 

Just catching up with this thread and I have to say some of the posts come across as extremely childish. It's well known that some of us can get a little "excited" shall we say about timings, final details etc as the day of travel approaches, but rudeness towards customers simply will not do, and does nothing to take the heat out of the situation. This exchange over timings and which leg they relate to reads very badly when you've joined the thread after the exchange is finished.

Be nice if we could all try and understand each others situation a little more it seems to me. Sarcasm is not an aid to communication by the way !

 

Speculation over ! Times are up http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50715/2014/03/15/advanced

 

To join the discussion, I hope and believe VT would not give up on a run from Crewe by Bittern, as a Carnforth loco would surely only come on at Carnforth and go off at Hellifield or Farington.

If Bittern cannot now go into Carlisle, the first question is WHY? Big LNER Pacifics have been doing it no problem for a great many years, and if some recent work has put the platforms out of gauge, why can't they get the contractors back to correct it?

If this can't be done in the time, why not unhook Bittern at Penrith and let it run light to Upperby for servicing, whilst the VT or a WCRC diesel runs us down into Carlisle. Then Bittern runs round the back onto the S&C, and picks us up at the earliest opportunity. In Bernard Staite's day, that used to be at Howe and Co sidings, but I believe that box has gone now. Kirby Thore, where there is a box and sidings? Or Appleby at worst, so we can still have the climb up Mallerstang?

I'm sure Bob, Ben and the others have the will to succeed in taking Bittern over Shap and Ais Gill, and where there's a will there's a way. We have the belief!

But if all else fails, perhaps they can persuade Mr Smith to give us the run he owes us with Scots Guardsman, to make up for the time when Britannia had to substitute. We know SG is on form right now.

Peter in Manchester after another lovely sunny day in Manchester
http://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com/

 

Return : http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50714/2014/03/15/advanced

 

Nothing wrong with that. Hooray!

Peter in Manchester