The Working Timetable Issue

Agree with you 100% there! For me personally it's a near perfect system, the only improvement I would make is to make the programme available online prior to the event as per West Somerset. It would mean being able to plan the day beforehand, rather than a somewhat frantic look through the timetable trying to plan around freights and TPOs etc in addition to the passenger trains on arrival! I believe they sell tickets online already for gala events but I think that is a print it out at home kind of thing rather than an actual ticket sent through the mail, adding a digital version of the programme to download with your ticket/on it's own if not travelling, seems like a somewhat logical step to me! Maybe one day.

 

If WTTs and programs are a revenue stream at the gala (they aren't at my local railway) then they are not going to be made available online (even as a private link once you purchase a ticket). Why? Because freeloaders would find a way to get a copy for free.

 

Like many of the photographers that want everything for free not purchase their lunch or anything from the railway, and as for paying to travel on trains, that's a joke for many.
I think line side passes should go up to around £125pa as it's the only way to earn money from them.

I don't worry about the timetables.
I'm there all day, ride on the trains I want and photograph them on a return trip, generally from public side of line but do have several photo passes for different lines.

Why the big worry about wanting it free? Doesn't make sense to me.
Charge for them or don't supply at all, it's the only way to pay for the massive extra costs involved for a Gala.

 

I don't understand how PTS is related to WTTs.

If you're doing PTS properly, and it is of personal irritation that many photographers don't take it as seriously as they should, you should expect a train from either direction at any time. Even against signals, or whatever.

When waiting for a train you should assume a safe position (basically along positions where you wouldn't be run over by a train if one ran past [edit: including a reasonable safety margin in case you misjudge]).

When moving you should try to walk along a "safe" path where possible - where this isn't possible, you may proceed away from a safe path as long as visibility in both directions is sufficient. When walking not in a safe position you always need to be looking out for a train in both directions [hint: count 5 paces before doing a shoulder-check], but also assessing escape routes so that you can retire to a safe position should a train appear. If there is no escape route, and a train does appear, [edit: as a last resort as you should really have prevented this situation but it's too late now] - you need to lie down in the cess.

It's not rocket science, it requires some respect for the environment that you're working in. The only time a WTT might be relevant to PTS is the obvious thing that you shouldn't be stood in an unsafe position reading your timetable. But then you shouldn't be stood in an unsafe position doing anything else that grabs your attention such as chimping, texting/phoning your mate, etc.

 

There are issues however as I've said before with how heritage railways manage the railway photography market. Two questions that any business should ask. Firstly, is my business deriving maximum possible revenue from this source? Secondly, what can I do to encourage the growth of this revenue source? The key IMHO is to try to market charters better to both those who are experienced railway photographers, and also to those that are not.

 

Nobody likes freeloaders, but I think the question is whether giving out this information well in advance and on line will encourage people to come, who need to know first that there is going to be something worthwhile - and if so will those people spend money riding on trains etc? I don't know the answer to that, but I would say that an obsession with frustrating the freeloaders can end up as cutting one's nose off to spite one's face if lack of information discourages potential custom.

John

 

You wouldn't find a restaurant that kept its menu a secret until after you'd booked a table. As for this "freeloaders" nonsense. They'll turn up anyway but maybe, just maybe, those who require specific haulage may be put off from attending if they can't plan their day sufficiently in advance. Maybe a WTT is a bit OTT but a roster helps immensely in this respect.

 

I'd just like to point out the freeloader comment wasn't aimed at any community specifically (be that photographers, PTS holders, those riding on the trains etc.)
I was trying to point out that if the WTTs / Programs are considered a revenue stream for the event, rather than just given away free with the tickets, then you are very unlikely to find them published on-line in a downloadable format, because electronic copies are so easy to pirate/share, thereby (potentially) eroding the revenue stream.
And yes, I know paper copies can be photocopied, but the effort involved (and availability of photocopiers close to the event limited), so the likelihood / (potential) loss is going to be less.

 

Simples. Take a photo of someone else's on your mobile phone.

 

Which is sort of the point - in this day and age, trying to keep anything secret is counter-productive. Might as well publish at least the loco and carriage allocations and timetables as far in advance as possible (subject to the usual caveats about availability) and allow people to plan their visit accordingly. I suspect (but couldn't prove) you'll gain more in extra custom than you'll lose in profit on event guides, especially amongst people who may have been a bit marginal "will I / won't I?" about attendance. Especially for people travelling by public transport, who may want to book a specific service on the mainline that is subject to very tight time restrictions: no point getting a super-dooper fare from one end of the country to the other, only to find the one and only full-line round trip of the engine you wanted to ride on is just disappearing out of sight round the corner...

Tom

 

There is always a way to be a tightwad if you really want to be, but I guess you get my point. To do that you've got to have really got there, and convinced someone who's paid to lend you their program etc.

Which lines charge for the program / timetable in addition to your ticket?

 

You generally get a Gala timetable free when you purchase a ticket, BUT many charge extra for Locos/WTT etc. if available.

 

Back to the original point about safety for those with legitimate access to the lineside, and supporting the comments by TonyMay above, I bet on NR workers dont "rely on the timetable", they will have constant vigilance for approaching traffic at any time. Maybe the same applies on a heritage line? A loco coasting, wind in the wrong direction, loco crew dont see you, your phone rings, and even at 25 mph you could be caught out if you are not concentrating.

On the question of revenue earned from photographers, there might be a small number who only pay for their pass, dont ride the trains and dont patronise the shops/cafe/bar, but I would have thought many do in fact contribute additional revenue in those ways. A day photographing and then a day riding the trains?

There is of course another category, the people who contributes nothing by photographing from public access sites, and does not otherwise patronise the railway in any form. It is however a free country, and those people just have to be taken as part of the scene.

46118

 

I said above about how.

From a strategic point of view a railway needs to recognise its potential customers, consider them demographically, and cater to their needs. Also consider the psychology of how to maximise income from source. Is little and often better than one big lump payment?

In the short-term, what can a railway do? Suggestions:

1. Lineside patrols (enforcement for permits), and bucket shakes to raise cash. You'll mostly just get loose change [edit: but many times a small amount is a reasonable amount] and you can invite those off the railway on public access to pay too. Also has the effect of reminding people what projects need funding and keeps those projects in the front of their minds. Now you can also claim gift aid on such donations.
2. Mini-charters associated with galas. Take a little organising and extra staff, but night shoots/early morning extra freight run-pasts for a little extra. This can add to the gala experience without having the side effect of having umpteen shots of the same train at different locations that you'd get with a full charter.

I think longer term the key is organisation, information and then marketing. Some ideas:

Everyone on a mailing list list gets an e-newsletter with info on events (assuming they've got email of course), which also includes photos, but is sent out as a general marketing newsletter to anyone who might have an interest. The idea being to extend the market on charters to people who might not otherwise be interested in photting. DSLRs are getting cheaper and more available, the key should be to act proactively to try to develop this revenue stream.

Proactively go to local camera clubs and ask them if they would like to join in the charter-based fun. Have a volunteer (who knows what they're talking about) who can give a lecture for an hour or so on railway photography, with a big plug for you at the end.

Organise photography exhibitions/competitions.

Organise photographers' working parties to improve the lineside for everyone's mutual benefit (none of your passengers really want a train ride through a dense forest, they want to see the scenery. Photographers in the scenery want to see the trains.)

Remember that many photographers do pay their way and/or volunteer, so lumping everyone together into one stereotype isn't always fair.

Finally back to the first point - there is little point in volunteers complaining that "photographers don't pay their way", if the railway is not really driving maximum benefit from them and being innovative in doing so.

 

Working timetables for the South Devon Railway Easter Gala - "Delivering the Goods" have been completed and have been sent to the various web keepers so should appear on the various SDR sites shortly.

 

Thanks for the heads up. South Devon Railway are top of the class in this matter as ever!

John

 

SDR WTT's for Easter now on the South Devon Railway Association site for downloading, they will appear on other sites in due course. Hopefully something of interest for most people during the Easter event which will see the debuts of Ivatt 46521 and Class 37 6975 on the line.

 

Without wishing to go off topic too much, the South Devon Easter gala is clearly a must - the early issue of a full WTT even showing direction of locos will surely persuade anyone who was in doubt.

And the frequency of trains means that a visitor can spend some of the day photographing and the rest riding and paying a fare; win-win!

John