GCR TPO set

Whilst we are all human, and seeing the discomfort of others seems to be something humans take rather too much interest in generally, sharing conclusions would, in my view, be seen generally as an instrument of "the grace of God". I would hope that when operators speculate, at least part of the reason - and certainly a consequence - is that they consider whether their operations contain similar risks and how to counter them.

Steven

 

Perhaps the ORR did and found nothing wrong.

 

Perhaps, but the two major accidents since then would seem to indicate that there is something wrong. Just my opinion, of course.

 

Whatever the allegations were that you made, and whether or not they were justified, (and not knowing the details, it is impossible to pass judgment on either), the assertion that the GCR has taken "no action" with regard to safety during the last couple of years is patently and demonstrably false. Furthermore, the two incidents you are referring to would appear to have little or nothing in common. This, however, is not the place for that discussion.

 

The two incidents do appear to have little or nothing in common. However, I would argue that this indicates a broad range of safety failings, rather than, as you suggest, that the GCR is not unsafe. Furthermore, you say that my assertion that the GCR has taken "no action" with regards to safety is false...are you then saying that the current GCR, which has had two major incidents within a year, is safer than it used to be? That's a rather unsettling thought, if I may say so.

 

You have made some strong allegations re GCR. I think it not unreasonable to ask your qualifications/experience are relative to this issue. Are you, or have you been involved in operating either on a heritage railway or on the main line network. By operating I include the grades driver,fireman/second man, cleaner, shunter, guard, signalman and operational management.

Dave Scott
Heritage line guard

 

Not unreasonable at all. No, I'm none of those, and thus, completely unqualified to make any of the allegations that have been made. I am, however, qualified to note that when an engine runs off the end of a line, or when two trains smash into each other, it's generally 'a bad thing'. Make of that what you will, as I've said before, this is all just my own opinion. Worth what you pay for it, I guess.

 

And of course making these allegations from behind a pseudonym with no clue as to your identity. The ORR can and does act where safety is concerned so I wonder just what "unsafe" practices you reported that you claim they have not acted upon.

 

No, I did not say that, nor am I going to be drawn into making any assertion about relative levels of safety of one railway versus another, or the same railway during different moments in time, when such statements are impossible to quantify. My previous comment was specifically addressing a false accusation which you made, it turns out based on no facts or evidence whatsoever.

Clearly, something went wrong on each of these occasions. That, itself, does not establish a pattern, nor does it mean that the railway is inherrently "unsafe", and indeed it has operated perfectly safely for many thousands of miles in-between. Let the inevitable inquiry do its job and find out what really happened before you pass judgment, especially as (by your own admission) you are not qualified to do so.

 

So you allege, and reported to ORR, that GCR were not operating to their rule book which not being a GCR operator you dont have. Interesting?

 

I've never been a working member on the SVR, yet (many years ago) I had access to a copy of their current rule books. I've never worked for any of the mainline companies, yet if I saw a member of train crew jumping down from a moving loco onto a station platform (examples can be found on YouTube), I might take an educated guess it probably goes against the company's rule book these days and could be viewed as unsafe.

As an outside observer there are any number of things I might witness that could cause one to question the safety of those actions. I may not be in a 'qualified' position to assert they definitely are unsafe, but that would be the reason for reporting them to an authority that is in a position to determine whether or not there is a safety issue.

Am I inclined to take action on anything I see - no, I probably couldn't be bothered with the hassle. But why the desire to jump on the back of someone who claims they have? I don't suppose their correspondence with the ORR was done using a false name they use on a train spotter internet forum.

Why is there often a reaction from posters on the forum to attack people who say something they don't happen to like? To start demanding to know who they are? What railway they volunteer on? What 'grade' they've achieved? etc. etc. It's all like some great pi$$ing contest.

I've never been to the GCR and don't know anything about it, likewise I've no idea who the gentleman posting in this thread is or what their concerns were - but if they had issues with what they saw there a number of years ago and reported those experiences to the ORR, why should they now be the subject of a witch hunt? Surely responsible people engaged in the operation of railways should support and encourage everyday visitors to report any safety concerns to who ever they feel most appropriate - whether that is internally within the railway or to an external body.

 

I was witness to said letter. It raised some very valid concerns however they may have been addressed with a reply of "That is how the GCR has chosen to operate, we support them and they are aware of the consequences should an incident or injury occur due to operating in that manner"
Following the news of this letter being sent, some of the people who supported and help write it, immediately 'switched sides'. Individuals claiming to represent the Great Central Railway sent messages to Tom through Proxy, to the point that messenger boys {literally} were arriving at his front door.
There was no official comment from the Great Central. Unofficially they denied the ORR had found anything wrong, although there were some severe improvements very shortly after, closely linked with the issues raised in the letter.

I see that everybody has commented on the incident, but nobody has spared a thought for the TPO Team who may well have lost a coach they worked very hard to restore. I've chatted to them before and it gave me a great respect for what they did. I'm sure the vehicle will be covered by insurance to a degree, but has anyone started passing the hat round? I'll chip in £20.

 

I apologise for my late reply, I took a late lunch and had no way of responding.

In response to the above, I'm not hiding anything. My name is Tom Cowan, I was a volunteer at the GCRs Loughborough Central station between 2007 and 2012, as platform staff, later as Stationmaster. In the final few months I was there I unofficially fulfilled the role of Senior Station Master, so the named Senior Station Master could take up his duties as Operations Manager. I was issued with two relevant sections from the then-current Network Rail rulebook, but I never had a GCR rule book. No member of staff on the station did, and few of the other staff did, either. This was due to the new rule book still being written, and no copies of the old rule book being made available. My comments and allegations are based on five years of observation both at weekends and midweek, during which time I have seen a number of blatant safety breaches by a variety of members of staff, though whether they were intentional or just down to bad training I don't know.

I'd like it to go on record here that I have absolutely nothing against the GCR, I wish it every success. I have nothing against the staff and volunteers, the majority of whom do a very good job in often trying circumstances. I do, however, have a serious issue with the management of the GCR, and a serious issue with their methods of running the railway.

May I thank those of you who have supported me on this thread. It's nice to know some people still think rationally.

Finally, as has been mentioned above, I am getting very tired of the GCR witch-hunt. This started when the report went in, and has continued to a greater or lesser extent for two years now. I have lost good friends over the issue, but I remain unapologetic. I know I'm right in what I say, and I believe, in time, that the authorities will confirm this.

Can I further echo the comments above about the loss of the TPO vehicle, I know the TPO chaps, and I know they're a good bunch - some of the best. If a fund is started I'll happily chip in to finance whatever repairs are necessary.

Thanks,

Tom

 

Might I suggest having a separate thread for discussing alleged past events and goings on at the GCR ?, it would be a shame if the thread got locked and some info directly related to this incident was ommitted due to discussions over past events getting out of hand.

What's happening in the meantime anyway, is the GCR operating as normal this weekend ?, I do have a special visit there later this month so am wondering if this will impact on events or not.

 

Apart from messages of support, i can't see that there is anything further to add to this thread with the exception of;

Official Statement from GCR and/or Rolling Stock Owners
Official update on the damage to the vehicles involved
Publication of official investigation report by GCR and/or RAIB.

Perhaps locking may not be such a bad idea?

 

Post deleted in deference to following podsts.

 

First of all I’d like to say it is most unfortunate that the GCR has been involved in another accident, my sympathy goes to the owners of the stock that was damaged.

I have no facts on what might have happened, but I have drawn my own conclusions. I await the RAIB report, and am taking a very close interest.

I was also the writer of the said ORR report with many others, some of whom were not prepared to put their name to it. I am very much qualified to comment having held senior posts on the national network and been involved in public inquires.

There is quite a lot more to the whole story, which I am not going to disclose because it would cause great damage to the GCR and preservation movement as a whole. I don’t want to do that.

But do want any witch hunts to stop, here or elsewhere, I also want the preservation movement as a whole to get its' act together, we don’t want fatal accidents with passengers and any railways being closed down.