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The Border Raider - 5 July 2014

Тема в разделе 'What's Going On', создана пользователем spicer21, 10 мар 2014.

  1. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Thanks Alan, did you make it out today? Woodacre wouldn't be the same without you!
     
  2. steamingyorkshire

    steamingyorkshire Well-Known Member

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  3. GBoreham

    GBoreham Member

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    Footage of 60163 storming over Shap Summit then flying past Dillicar Common & Galgate on the return.

     
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  4. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Unfortunately not, Woodacre is a bit far away for me now I'm not on the Fylde:(.
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    On June 24th 2010, Tornado went over Shap with one of the performances that will go down in history. Set aside the under even time start to stop from Preston to Carlisle, it was the leg from Grayrigg to Shap Summit that was eye-boggling. The load was 13 for 480 gross. We went through Oxenholme at 64, topped Grayrigg at 49 and then only 11 minutes and 7 seconds later blasted over Shap at 43. Keith Murfin was driving and the crew was 'going for it'.

    By coincidence, it was the same driver today. We had 11 for 415 gross so a slightly lighter train. Oxenholme was passed at 62, we topped Grayrigg at 53 and then only 10 minutes 43 seconds later we swept over Shap at 43. Comparable? I think so except that today Tornado had something in reserve and my understanding is that she was worked hard but not thrashed. But it was not over.

    On the return we were booked only 34 minutes from Carlisle to Shap Summit - that's 31.55 miles...uphill. Pete Sheridan was driving and we almost literally flew at it. Penrith was taken at line speed and despite a TSR that took us down to 53 around Clifton and Lowther after 26 minutes (the booked time), this speed was built on slightly up the 1 in 125 with a minimum of 55 before passing the actual summit level at 59 in a little over 36 minutes. We crept through Oxenholme before the water stop in the loop in 53 min or so for the 50 miles from Carlisle.

    The running today was something special. I think it fair to say that the LNER triumphed over Shap again. No doubt a more accurate version of events will appear in the railway press at some point but I think both crews did us proud. Tornado always seemed to be working within herself and it is such as shame that she doesn't get more outings as every DBS crew I've had with her certainly know how to make her sing.

    One thing is for certain, she would bring an entirely different dimension to the winter CMEs, for example, but that is not to be. Many thanks to UKRT, the DBS crews and support crews for a great day. And by the way, NR, next time you do the pathing, remember it's Tornado you are dealing with. The apparently impossible is sometimes possible.
     
    Last edited: 6 июл 2014
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  6. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    That video coupled with Big Als comments. The first shot almost seems effortless.
     
  7. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Thanks for the on board report. I agree with your assessment, about the loco working hard, but not being thrashed. The climb up Shap going Northbound looked effortless, and you couldn't really here the exhaust, until the A1 approached us near Shap Wells hotel and went out of sight. Thought the Southbound climb to Shap was a fine spectacle as it passed through Strickland.
    I have to say DBS no how to put on a fine show, when in charge of Tornado. Thanks again for the report. Video to follow later.
     
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  8. malc

    malc Part of the furniture

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    I agree that it was an excellent run yesterday, but...

    As we passed through Oxenholme station on the return, I noticed that we were only 5 minutes in front of the Manchester Airport service train. Earlier posts in this forum suggested we might have been able to run non-stop to Preston ahead of this train ... maybe the NR planners do have a little bit more of a sense of realism.
     
  9. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I disagree. The Manchester service was booked to stop at Oxenholme at 1709/1710. We passed through at 1705 at 10 mph. Had we been running at 70 ish (as we had been since Tebay) then we would have passed through Oxenholme at 1703, that incidentally was to the same timing as the remarkably fast booked path we had been given. Roll forward to Lancaster, the next stop for the Manchester service. Had we continued at around 70/75 mph (and it is mostly downhill) then that would have put us through Lancaster at 1718 or 1719. The Manchester service called there at 1724/1726, still five minutes behind us. On the final leg that we actually ran in 20.5 minutes against 23 booked, we would have come to a stand in Preston no later than 1740 - about four minutes ahead of the Manchester service. Hence my point about Network Rail understanding that the apparently impossible is possible with Tornado. If you keep a train running then you take up less track time and it is more efficient. Water would not have been needed at all and arguably not at Preston either if the engine was to continue with just a support coach to Crewe. But, of course, were Tornado to have been pathed to arrive at Preston at 1740 that poses an entirely new question about whether water could have been taken there for us to then continue with her to Crewe as in the original publicity for the trip. Two hours to water a loco, run to Crewe and change to electric is hardly a problem given that less than an hour of that would be on the move with steam.

    So, as I said, it was all possible and not with any silly speeds or times. But this is all academic and I fully accept that anyone at Network Rail would simply say. "Yes, that's all well and good but why should be bother with all this effort for just one charter (that's actually nothing special in the grand scheme of things). By the way, could you guarantee that this path would have been kept and that any delay costs would be met in full?"

    It was still a great day though.
     
    Last edited: 6 июл 2014
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  10. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Top performance from Tornado yesterday. The Southbound run up Shap, was the highlight of the day for myself.

     
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  11. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    A blue, external combustion "Pendo" with a chime whistle was out on the WCML yesterday.............

    An incredible performance by all involved with this train, least of all "Tornado", what a locomotive!

    A couple of short clips of the train, firstly, cresting Boars Head bank, then tearing up the bank out of Lancaster. A very memorable day out.



    Must dash, more speed exploits now - the British Grand Prix is on the box!!

    Ciao

    Alan
     
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  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I've just been talking to a couple of 'not really into railways' friends who were visiting relations in the Oxenholme area yesterday morning, and were taken to the station to see Tornado go through. Both were very let down by what they said was a lack of spectacle, when she came into sight there was only a trace of exhaust and no visible steam, then there was complete lack of exhaust noise except a sort of hissing/whooshing noise.
    Having been there some weeks previously they saw Scots Guardsman through, now that was what we expect a steam engine to sound and look like was the comment. :).
    In short they thought Tornado was a non event, and were not impressed.
     
  13. Yorkshire Exile

    Yorkshire Exile Member

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    Just what is the point you are trying to make?
     
  14. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Should of been at Lancaster or Penrith on the return run. Going very well, with chimes blazing.
     
  15. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    As people just taken along to see Tornado but with no real interest, they were not impressed with what they saw, it did not conform to their idea of what a steam engine should sound and look like, unlike Scots Guardsman a few weeks previously.
     
  16. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, what happened to education? You should have explained the important differences between the two designs. You could then go further and inform them that the sounds they were expecting to hear, and indeed probably did hear from 46115, were not what should be heard from a well designed locomotive.

    Or, to re-phraseYorkshire Exile, what, exactly, are you trying to say?
     
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  17. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    242A1 You miss my point, these were joe public, and would not be interested in the slightest in being bored with anarak details concerning design.
     
  18. garstangpost

    garstangpost New Member

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  19. Yorkshire Exile

    Yorkshire Exile Member

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    Spot on. Could also have referred to how weather conditions can affect the what is visible when a steam engine is doing its job.
     
  20. rule55

    rule55 Member

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    I'll take Big Al's on train report as a true reflection of the measure of what was achieved yesterday if you don't mind.. With the greatest respect, this ain't the Red Arrows, we can't just turn the smoke on to suit disinterested onlookers.
     

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