The Border Raider - 5 July 2014

They would of fell asleep, if details of different classes were explained !

 

Ralph, to paraphrase your comments to me from a few weeks ago, they weren't on the train so their opinion is irrelevant. Or does that not suit your mood this week?

 

Sorry but give me Guardsman any day over Tornado over the Cumbrian Fells . I agree Tornado may be efficient but for pure noise and a sight well worth seeing 46115 wins hands down any day .

 

RalphW's post was a factual account of how some people reacted to seeing Tornado go past. We may lament their reaction, but that is no reason to shoot the messenger. In fact it is a useful item of information: Joe Schmoe is more impressed by a noisy locomotive than by a quiet one. As indeed are some posters on this forum.

Many years ago I had one ride in France behind a 241P. A superb locomotive, but very quiet.

 

Personally I would be more interested in a reliable performer, that gets from A to B, at a higher percentage than other mainline performers, certainly those mentioned.

That's what stands a greater chance of bringing normal to travel, not smoke steam and noise.....

 

Tornado raids the border again 5 July 2014

Four years ago, Tornado ran an epic Border Raider tour from Crewe to Carlisle and back, and today the title appeared again. The itinerary was less ambitious than in 2010: Crewe - Shap - Carlisle - Shap - Preston was all that could be managed in a day within the diktat of the Network Rail computer.

Nobody told Tornado that, and we reached 60 just after leaving the town of Crewe, only to have to slow at Winsford to let a Pendolino pass. We were up in the mid 70s by Weaverham and tore onwards through Warrington, rattling the windows at Bank Quay at our full speed. We were stopped before Golborne Junction by a late-running TPE electric, then moseyed on through Preston at lesser speeds to our water stop at Barton & Broughton loop.

We were soon back in the seventies after this, slowing slightly to pass Lancaster at 72 before our pathing stop at Carnforth. Once again we got away smartly, reaching the sixties before Burton and Holme and still doing 61 through Oxenholme with the climb to Grayrigg well under way. Our speed dropped away only very slowly with our 11 coach load, with a minimum speed of 52 just before we crested the summit. We roared down the hill and along the Lune gorge, passing Tebay at a nicely judged 75. We were still doing 64 at Greenholme, 54 at Scout Green and 46 at Shap Wells with a minimum of 42 just before Shap Summit. We had a rollicking ride down to Carlisle, arriving on time at Carlisle despite a temporary speed restriction for a short distance.

The return run was equally brisk: we reached the 50s by Southwaite, the sixties before Plumpton and blasted through Penrith at 71. Despite the climb, our speed never fell below 50 and we passed Shap Summit at 60, followed by another joyful run downhill in the seventies until just before Oxenholme, our water stop. From there we had another short but magnificent dash to the pathing stop at Carnforth. Starting away from there, we were able to pass Lancaster at 70 again and had a good brisk run along the straight and level track to our final stop with Tornado at Preston, reached nearly five minutes early.

It was a magnificent day in glorious sunshine with Tornado on top form. Many familiar faces from amongst the 'usual suspects' were on the trip, and it was good to meet Big Al from NatPres and the legendary Mike Notley for the first time. We can await his detailed analysis in Steam Railway with great anticipation.

26 pictures are at http://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com/p247596698

Peter at the end of another lovely summer day in Manchester
http://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com

 

A shot of Tornado to add here at Wyre Bridge, near Garstang...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/iancawthorne/14404390180/

 

I much rather be on a charter with a steam engine that makes some noise up front otherwise I just as well be on an HST or a Voyager.

 

You don't have to go into details. A large number of enthusiasts do not know the full details. But that does not exclude them from being valued members and supporters of the preservation movement.

While the general public all too frequently have the slow, dirty, struggling, noisy view of the steam locomotive it makes it all the more difficult to counter the prejudice that this creates. Preserved lines are one thing. Delays brought about by steam on the national network are another. And how often have we seen steam being blamed for events in the past which in reality were caused by other factors?

Empty vessels make the most noise, this proverb is widely known. Power output is not directly linked to decibels. The tricky aspect of the steam locomotive is it's perceived primitive nature. The raw nature of the undeveloped machine holds an undeniable attraction, until you learn enough to know better.

The steam locomotive is at first sight a rather simple machine. This is true of a poor to mediocre design, the type that is all too common. However designing a locomotive that achieves the best of what is truly possible is a challenge beyond the capacity of by far the majority of those who were involved in steam locomotive in it's heyday. Little wonder then, that the general public struggle to make a valid judgement based on what they see and experience. What doesn't it take to point out that what might be seen to the casual observer as a strength is in fact a serious weakness?

 

With Tornado not having many outings this year I think several points are being made here. People want any locomotive to run with a good exhaust up grades Like Shap and Beattock. If you want a locomotive with noise Tornado is not for you whether lineside or onboard. There is nothing wrong with that.
I like many others would take a Jubilee, Scot, Princess Royals, Castles, Kings over the A1.

 

Well, it's all down to personal choice I suppose.

But, while we're on the subject, I suppose it might be worth noting that, unlike an HST, 60163 doesn't normally have another power car pushing at the back of the train so its exhaust doesn't have to mask that particular noise. Just saying like..

 

Firstly, let us not denigrate the loco and those who made Tornado happen, it was, by any measure, a spectacular achievement in organisation, funding, publicity and engineering. Most of all engineering, it is a magnificent piece of pure engineering, but in going for the modern engineering take on old designs* something has been lost. Tornado is without doubt the least spectacular steam loco in action. In short its just too damn well made and efficient and as a consequence is completely characterless. I for one can't be bothered to chase it anywhere, because the end results don't justify the effort. Terrible to say, but while its been away I haven't missed it.

*I can see the teams goal, take a steam design and try and recreate how the engineering would have been applied and evolved had steam been allowed to continue. The point is it would never have happened, steam locos had to die (certainly those with pistons) because it was just too labour intensive and inefficient to continue.

 

Looking at it another way Ralph, you are well known across this board for being a strong supporter of all things Stanier! When I first read your post I thought it was a deliberate wind-up, but of course, having met you a couple of times over the years I know you would never troll !

 

Maybe the solution is to have a properly designed, reliable Peppercorn loco up front, and then play a Stanier / Collett racket oops soundtrack through the P/A system? No?

Tom

 

Now that's an idea. Perhaps you could add a Sulzer 2LDA28-C to the mix in the back couple of coaches.

 

From being amongst a few Joe Schmoe non-enthusiasts quite often, they are mostly impressed with just speed, noise and steam... However that's on the move, for a static or slow moving loco to interest them it usually needs to be big and bright with a memorable name - so here Tornado would likely do fine!