John Bunch's Southern Moguls

Yep, the modified examples are easy to identify, as they all have external steam pipes and shallower curve on the running plate.
I just checked pictures online of the MHR Maunsell three and they all have the BR mod. The Maunsell loco society examples are of the original front end type.
Perhaps what the Swanage press release was trying to get across is that 31625 is the only surviving U class built as a U, with the BR mod.

 

According to Bradley, the frame conversions were as follows:

31874 - Front end only, May 1957
31625 - Full frame replacement, January 1959
31806 - Front end only, November 1957

1618 and 1638 retain their original pattern frames.

Tom

 

Is it just by chance that the two original Us ended up at the Bluebell, or was it a deliberate decision?

 

I'm glad that the discussion has turned to what colour the locos will be painted.....
Far more controversial than some of the earlier postings.

Anyway, you all know that Swanage would paint Bulleids in BR lined black, if it had the chance!!!!

 

I suspect just by chance. 1618 went to the KESR first and the first restoration was done there, but it was considered too heavy for the line so came to the Bluebell. It was a very early Barry escapee (No. 2 I think).

Incidentally, on ownership to slightly correct post 121: 1618 is indeed owned by the Maunsell Locomotive Society, but 1638 is owned by the Bluebell Railway plc.

Tom

 

41312 is probably slightly too small for regular use at Swange

 

If she can be used at the MHR with their 1 in 60 graidents then I sure she be of use to Swanage. The M7 is a bit smaller but she is used regularly on our trains, and as 41312 is historically connect to the line she be more then welcome i surspect.

Should point out I'm not promoting that 41312 Should come to the line. Ultimately its down to the engines owner and he seems happy to keep the engine at the MHR so that's that.

 

Class 2 on 5 coaches day in and day out will wear her out quite quickly.

 

And it wouldn't the M7? The M7s were considered class 2s as well.

(this is not meant to be critical statement in way shape or form)

 

This sounds like more of the "Alps~" mindset: Bulleid pacifics needed to pull 5 coaches up 1/60, the work is too much for Maunsell moguls! It makes one wonder why the Mid Hants have acquired 3 class 4 engines.

The Swanage branch isn't noted for its fierce gradients and I doubt if a class 2 tank would strain with a 5-coach train. The M7 seems to manage fine. Perhaps the MHR loco dept should visit somewhere like the NYMR for some enlightenment on how to manage heavy trains with something less than a pacific!

 

Which members of the MHR loco department have stated the Ivatt or Maunsell moguls are too small for the MHR? I'm not aware of any. I think the person who posted that the Ivatt would wear out quickly on 5 coach trains at Swanage, obviously isn't too well versed on its use at the MHR.

 

My point was that a class 2 for day in day out working at Swanage on a 5 coach set is not ideal.
Yes it can handle a 5 coach set but it would be a hard days work for a class 2 kettle.

No I dont know how its used on the MHR

 

41312 with three or four Coaches is just the right loco for a out of season midweek turn or for a weekend service in January/February at the MHR.

 

An Ivatt Tank has a tractive effort of 17,400lbs. Compare that to the M7 tractive effort of 19,755 lbs and you begin to see that classification isn't the only thing to look at.
The M7 is more powerful on paper, but couple it to the knowledge that it is now 109 years old. The Ivatt could work 5 coaches on Swanage Railway quite comfortably day in day out. The M7 does and arguably the Ivatt is more robust and certainly more modern. The lack of power is made up but accessible motion and ease of maintenance and operation.
Both the M7 and Ivatts are stretched on 6 coach trains, but again both could handle them if the railway wants to push them and is prepared to pick up the extended maintenance bill.

The simple fact is, 41312 is staying where it is and good for the MHR, its a cracking loco. If Swanage want it, or anyone else for that matter they better save up and hope it comes on the market one day... that could well be decades away!

 

Am not denying that it could work a 5 coach train....but day in day out on the intensive service that swanage runs would wear it out quicker....

 

The N class was out of the headshunt today and into the yard. Its looks small beside Britannia.

 

That's why they tend to keep up on the M7s condition to make sure it does not get too worn out. she is a pet of the younger engineers, and it shows that a 109 year old engine is used intensely on our services. They keep on top of the others conditions too, ( they work hard as well) part of the reason why Eddystone will run to the end of her ticket.

So if the 1 in Billion chance 41213 ended up in the Purbecks I sure she be fine. Any as 700 said she's not going anywhere anyway.

So we should get back to talking about the 'Moguls'. And what I just said gives me confidence that they give good use and looked after... Just waiting when I have 31806 on the train I'm ticket inspecting.

 

It makes one wonder if you have a clue what you're talking about.

 

All this talk of the power of 41312 has got me thinking back to her rare Main Line adventures. I travelled on a couple of the few runs that she did and she was very impressive. On one occasion she was hauling six carriages from the MHR Green Train set from Alton to Windsor. Some of the Daylight Railtour stewards were rather worried when she was checked by a signal at the foot of Camberley Bank (1 in 60 IIRC). 41312 responded magnificently and barked up the bank in some style. So she rather likes hill climbing and fits in well on the MHR.

Getting back to the thread topic, perhaps the MHR might be able to hire the three Moguls for a reunion Gala in the future? If the JB contract is with the Swanage Railway surely they get a say on hiring out loco's to other railways? Or will the MHR be banned from hiring them I wonder?

 

Well, some of 31874 is already green.

Oh, its grass growing on the running plates.....