Palmerston Returns to the Vale of Rheidol

The Vale of Rheidol Railway is set to host the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways’ No.4 Palmerston for two weekends during September this year. Palmerston was a regular sight on the Vale of Rheidol during the Great War, and its visit is a poignant reminder of the conflict’s centenary. Palmerston will be the star of two unique and unforgettable weekends, 20th and 21st and 27th and 28th September when it will head eight specials workings from Aberystwyth to Devil’s Bridge.

Palmerston first visited the Vale of Rheidol in July 1912 and was again hired in 1913 to cater for additional traffic generated by the opening of a large Territorial Army camp at Lovesgrove, near Capel Bangor and other army camps near Devil’s Bridge. Palmerston became a regular sight in 1914 and ’15 when it was again hired to assist with vast increase of timber traffic over the line, the timber being used as pit props and duck boards to support the war effort.

Palmerston’s war service on the VoR has become local legend, however, only four photographs are known to exist. The Vale of Rheidol Railway is working with Cliff Thomas of Railway Magazine to uncover more photos of the diminutive loco working hard on the VoR. We would be grateful if any readers with photographs could get in touch with the Vale of Rheidol via telephone on 01970 625 819 or via email at info@rheidolrailway.co.uk , or contact Cliff Thomas via email at cliffsthomas@aol.com .

Palmerston again returned in 1921 and ’22 to cover for Vale of Rheidol locos coming out of traffic for overhaul. After being absorbed by the Great Western Railway, the Vale of Rheidol sought to hire Palmerston again in 1923 – however, the request was declined due to loco shortages on the Ffestiniog and newly completed Welsh Highland Railway.

Now the loco is to head the 12:15 and 15:45 services on the weekends of 20th-21st and 27th-28th September. The loco will also appear at two photo charters during the visit, with part of the revenue raised going to support the fund to rebuild sister F&WHR locomotive Welsh Pony in time for its 150th birthday in 2017. These photo charters are scheduled for 11th and 18th September. Contact the Vale of Rheidol on 01970 62 5 819 or at info@rheidolrailway.co.uk for more details.

Palmerston, the oldest engine in existence to have worked on the Vale of Rheidol, will be running in the 1910s era Ffestiniog Railway livery it would have carried when operating on the VoR the first time around. Its reappearance at the VoR will complement recently relaunched locomotive No.9 Prince of Wales, also in operation over the two weekends. No.9 was relaunched in May, resplendent in Cambrian Railways’ “invisible green” livery which the Vale of Rheidol’s locomotives carried

Palmerston is also the first loco to visit the Vale of Rheidol since privatisation in 1989. "We're delighted to welcome this historic loco back," says VoR General Manager Llyr ap Iolo, "It's a great example of how Welsh narrow gauge railways can work together and we expect there will be a big demand to ride behind her this autumn." His views were echoed by Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways General Manager Paul Lewin, saying "It's great that Palmerston, one of our most travelled locos, is returning to the Rheidol more than 100 years after its first visit." The visit is even more special, taking place during the 25th Anniversary year of privatisation from British Rail.

Tickets for Palmerston Specials are available in advance by phone or online or can be booked on the day of travel. Prices are £40.00 per adult and £12.00 per child and entitle the holder to additional unlimited weekend travel on standard service trains in addition to the Palmertson Special. To book either telephone the railway on 01970 625 819 or book online at www.valeofrtickets.co.uk . For more details of the visit and other attractions during the event, check the VoR websitewww.rheidolrailway.co.uk or contact the VoR via telephone on 01970 625 819.

 

Sounds great but do the V of R still have any vac braked coaching stock? Ray.

 

Are the September trains the only one's it will haul? Isn't it going to do anything between now and then?

 

Check out the Ffestiniog's facebook page - there are some great videos of Palmerston on test on the VOR, plus a comment (in the 2nd video) about brakes, but, alas, no details. I thought I heard the sound of a petrol driven machine in one scene that could have been a compressor, but equally it might have been someone mowing their lawn! Can anyone enlighten us? I thought that there was an issue with the back to back wheel measurements being different between the two railways, but Palmerston seemed to be staying where it should, so this may not be correct.

Steve B

 

After regular service trains had finished for the day, Palmerston ran the full length of the line from Aberystwyth to Devil's Bridge light engine on June 26th and with a test train on July 1st to prove its suitability for the task. The loco has been equipped with coupling adapters and modified to operate with the air braking system of the VoR stock.

Air compressor in the brake van.

Pics from today and the June and July test runs at www.festrail.co.uk/press in the Locomotives on tour folder.

 

Andrew, thanks for the information - Palmerston looks quite at home there! I haven't been to the VOR for years and years and am quite surprised (and delighted) to see the developments there. Brilliant!

Steve B

 

So is there a possibility of some VOR locos going the other way in the future ?

 

I wouldn't go there James this is a good stepping stone for the time being

 

Back to backs on the big 2-6-2s won't allow them to go on other lines

 

Wouldn't they fit on the WHR? - but with only 8 & 9 available for traffic they could hardly spare one, unless out of season or equivalent replacement motive power was brought in..... or they wait for No 7!!

 

The issue is the back to back dimensions on the wheelsets - would cause havoc with pointwork wherever they went

 

What does that mean in laymens terms, wrong wheel profiles or something else?
Googled it but didn't understand the answer

 

The distance from the back of the one wheel to the back of the wheel at the other end of the same axle will be less than that found on most other locomotives. This means the wheels are likely to collide with and damage the moved-out-of-the-way point blades on railways constructed to run with wheel sets having a greater back-to-back dimension ('cos the blades won't be far enough out of the way, check rails might be too close etc. etc). I suspect the reason why the distance is less is due to the wheels being built to similar proportions to the rest of the locos - ie. big, and very chunky indeed! (probably resulting in thicker flanges than other locos - hence the reduced dimension)

"Wrong" wheel profile might suggest there's an error with them, but it's just they're built to a 'different' wheel profile which is matched to the railway they are intended to run on. ....but yes, ultimately 'wrong' for other railways that have been built to run with more slender wheels having greater back-to-back dimensions. No doubt they could visit another railway that has no points, check rails, level crossings or other obstructions....

 

Thanks Ian, you put it very well. It had been a long day yesterday and my brain wasn't in, hence my non-explanation. Apologies James.

 

It seems that this back to back issue is a myth, they are apparently exactly the same as the FR/WHR.

See: http://welshhighland.freeforums.org/palmerston-at-vor-t1610.html

Rob.

 

Well putting that aside, would they fit the WHR loading gauge? How does their width compare to an NGG166?

 

Thanks Rob, it was an FR fireman who told me about the back to backs on the phone yesterday. I will appraise him of the mythbusting!

 

I thought the back to backs of the VoR tanks were too big for the FR/WHR, hence FR locos can work on the VoR but not vice versa. One of the VoR tanks has worked on the Brecon Mountain railway so it can't be anything else. The difference between 2' and 1'11.75" perhaps?

 

It could be a question of loading gauge. Apparently the Rheidol tanks are about 8' wide, which is exceptional for nominal 2' gauge. The BMR was built on an ex-SG trackbed, so loading gauge wouldn't have been a problem. But the ex-NWNGR bridges on the northern section of the WHR are a tight fit for the NGG16s, and the latter are (according to Wikipedia) only 7' wide. I therefore think it doubtful that the WHR could accommodate a Rheidol tank, though I would be delighted to be proved wrong!