Bluebell Railway General Discussion

This looks like the move: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50565/2014/07/26/advanced

With that arrival time, I think it is just about possible to get it onto the Bluebell in between the 5pm down and 6.15pm down service trains, but it would be very tight. (For example, 5pm down train gets to Kingscote at 5.11pm; take the token up to East Grinstead by road to meet Tornado at 5.31pm; get it back down to Kingscote by 5.45 to cross the next up service train. But that would be very tight indeed; I suspect it will need to wait in EG Siding until after the departure of the 6.15pm down service train, then come onto Bluebell metals before the arrival of the Golden Arrow at 8.08pm.

Tom

 

Out of curiosity - can a light engine coming in from Network Rail be added to a Bluebell Train at East Grinstead? For instance, in the example above, could Tornado be added to the 6.15pm train?

Steve B

 

Technically feasible? Yes. But I don't think the rule book would allow it.

There's plenty of time for Tornado to get onto the railway after the departure of the 6.15pm down and return of the token by road - but it means sitting in the "East Grinstead siding" (the connecting track between Network Rail and the Bluebell) for about an hour and a half from 5.30pm to around about 7pm.

Tom

 

Thanks - I thought that might be the case given the present way of operating the connection and the Bluebell's "signalling" arrangements at EG.

Steve B

 

I found myself grinding my teeth somewhat about Wilcock's ranting. I'm sure given an unlimited budget the Arrow would always have a Bullied on the front, but it's slightly different in the real world. Plus, the Arrow is really just a commercial operation, not being run for the good of Wilcock and his camera. The people who actually pay for their Arrow journey are far too comfy in the nice seats eating good food to be window hanging and worrying about whether the engine on the front is a Bullied or a Met Prarie...! Plus, L150 is there to get the line out of a shortage of locos, not to form a long term historical recreation. About time Wilcock lived in the real world and wound his neck in I reckon. Aaaaaand breathe...!


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What is the signalling arrangement between Kingscote and EG? Is it train staff operation?

 

One engine in steam, with a token (Kingscote - EG) that unlocks the ground frames (either the run-roubnd loop one for the Bluebell station or, in this instance, the one that controls access to Network Rail).

So for an engine to arrive from NR, you have to obtain a token from the signalbox at Kingscote, then take it by road to East Grinstead, perform the necessary operations to set the road from Network Rail to the Bluebell, call the engine onto Bluebell metals, reset the ground frame (and confirm such to Network Rail), then the loco can run (with the token) to Kingscote. The return journey is similar: a departing engine leaves Kingscote with the token and runs to just short of the points giving access to Network Rail; the token is used to unlock the ground frame and allow the engine to pass on to Network Rail metals, then the token has to be returned by road to Kingscote before another Bluebell service train can enter that section.

Tom

 

Has any consideration been goven to setting it up with a No Signalman Key Token machine at EG, so a token can be obtained (and replaced) remotely?

This is the basis on which we operate Corfe Castle to Norden (so if something arrives from 'outside', once the Norden to Corfe section is clear and Corfe Castle Signalman has an appropriate clearing point, he can give a release for a member of traincrew or the crossing keeper to obtain a token for the section), and when the new token system comes into operation and the Motala staff is abolished, it will be the way we operate between Wareham and Norden.

 

For those who are wondering what this is all about see the latest Beano (steam railway) Wilcox rant. I totally agree with Dan Lanc, it is Willcox who has lost the plot. Heritage railways are run for the education and experience of the population at large not just enthusiasts. Most volunteers and staff would like to recreate an accurate historic image but it is not allways possible for operational or other reasons. Will Wilcox have another rant if the Golden Arrow headboard is carried by Tornado?. If you dont like the image dont take the photo. If the magazine does not like the photo you don't have to publish it.

Perhaps we shoul all remember before critisising L150 that the purpose of paint is to stop the loco going rusty. Being a nice colour is a secondary consideration.

end of rant - Bluebell armchair member, SVR volunteer, Steam Railway and Railway Magazine subscriber

 

Speaking personally, I think if there is one set of carriages the Met Prairie looks quite good on at the Bluebell it's the Pullmans...

 

I think lots of things are possible, the question is how many of them are worth the financial outlay, relative to the enhanced flexibility they would give operationally. When all is said and done, incoming movements are still fairly rare (though not completely neglible).

It's probably a fair question to ask why it was set up that way, rather than e.g. with a remote no-signalman key token instrument at East Grinstead from the outset (which in fact is basically the situation that exists at Kingscote at the moment: a token can be removed from Kingscote north box under the electrical authority of the signalman in the south box, several hundred yards away). My assumption on why that wasn't originally done is that it was to do with project risk. Remember, the final breakthrough at the cutting only happened a matter of weeks before the opening date: in the circumstances, it would seem to be simpler to keep the signalling infrastructure at East Grinstead entirely separate electrically from that at Kingscote, so it could be fully implemented and tested independent of the breakthrough of the cutting. Remember as well that we were operating trains at "Bluebell North" (East Grinstead), including incoming moves from Network Rail, e.g. the 4VEP and spoil trains, several years before the final through connection to "Bluebell South".

In those circumstances, I can understand why the signalling set up is as it is, i.e. with no electrical signalling connection between Kingscote and East Grinstead - even though it is slightly less operationally flexible. The new "L" frame at Kingscote (North) will have provision for a more sophisticated setup that can control the signalling at East Grinstead remotely, but AFAIK, there is no detail design work beyond making passive provision in the distribution of levers in the frame, with a block of levers reserved for possible future use controlling East Grinstead.

Tom

 

Indeed - the cable ducting through the cutting was only put in a matter of weeks before the line opened, and only the minimum (signalling cabling and equipment wise) was installed initially. Further cables etc have since been installed and as Tom says the capability is there for future, but there are a few too many other "priority" projects keeping the Bluebell's S&T folk busy at the moment.

As far as Tornado on Saturday is concerned, I'm told that it will run EG to KC after the 5pm ex East Grinstead reaches Kingscote, and before the next up-train at 5:45. At least that was the plan as of earlier today...

Cheers.
Jon

 

Thanks Jon.

That's going to involve some smart work at East Grinstead! I'm on the 5.45pm up train (6.15pm down) - looks like I'll get to see Tornado twice at Kingscote (once up and then down) according to the latest traffic notice!

Tom

 

A good number of photos and videos of the Met's move on the Bluebell Facebook page (you don't need to be a member to view): https://www.facebook.com/bluebellrailway

A few to give a flavour (not my photos...)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/carpentr/14728597325/ - on Oxted viaduct from Roger Carpenter
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...969612288.1073741855.628772287&type=1&theater - at Hurst Green, by Tim Gray
https://www.flickr.com/photos/timeaster/14726991104/in/photostream/ - at Clapham Junction, from Tim Easter

Meanwhile, L150 is due to depart soon - by road!

Tom

 

I don't think Wilcox has lost the plot - I think Steam Railway magazine has lost the plot with several pages dedicated to stuffed dogs - what is all that about! As for Wilcox he lost the plot years and years ago IMHO.

 

Just a quick note to say thanks to Tom and Jon for their responses re EG signalling.

 

Hi Pete - I checked the loco duty list in the loco lobby and it only went as far forward as that published on the website - so I suspect the website loco roster is as good a source as any! Sorry I can't be any more help.

Tom

 

Just a quick note to say Tornado arrived yesterday (Saturday) and successfully completed her gauging runs. She was in light steam in the yard today offering cab visits and will be in service from tomorrow (Monday) - normal fares apply. See http://www.bluebell-railway.com/east-grinstead-festival/festival-timetable/ for timetable - I believe Tornado will be used on the 0945 / 1215 / 1445 / 1715 services ex-SP and an hour later ex-EG.

Tom

 

Hi Tom,
many thanks for looking! I'll keep an eye on the railways website for updates, there's plenty of info' about the Summer Festival, though the railway's the main interest for me..

Cheers Pete

 

It's not long since Tornado's previous visit. What had changed to make new gauging tests necessary?