Moorlands and City Railway

I can't resist the temptation to ask this thread's embedded Troll, since you obviously have the answer to everything, why aren't you actually running the CVR and MCR? I'm sure they'd value your 20 20 hindsight and unerring judgement. Opening to Leek, Endon and Waterhouse would surely be a doddle with your help.

Maybe you should join forces with another NP poster - Alf Roberts - I'm sure that with your help the South Bedfordshire Railway / shopping trolley track would be a certain winner.

 

With this in mind C&K the SVR and Bluebell have clearly got it wrong! Both Kidderminster and East Grinstead IMO are not as pretty as the rest of their respective running lines! The SVR therefore should clearly rip up the Kidderminster line and turn Bewdley into a terminus and instead focus on getting back to Ironbridge as tourists are not going to want look at a local industial estate.

There is a clear benefit to railways going from built up areas which suprisingly come close to industrial units and the like and heading out into the countryside. There is also a clear benefit to having a mainline connection. These are things that both the SVR and the Blubell have achived and the CVR are working towards. As much as I love the location of Oakamoor I can see the benefit of focusing on Leek and Stoke on Trent and wish the CVR well in achiving these goals.

 

There is a great deal of difficulty for an outsider to determine whether this particular figure is a troll or a Cassandra figure asking awkward but pertinent questions and getting personal abuse for his pains. The two are not mutually exclusive.

PH

 

Definitely a Troll. The CVR is one of my favourite preserved railway, so I've followed this thread as long as I've been on NP. Look back through it and you'll see that I'm not the only one who thinks he's a Troll.

Never, ever had a good word to say about anything that the CVR or MCR do. Always got the right answer. Always knows better. Never comes up with anything constructive, supportive or positive. Always clogging, always knocking.

I'd call that a Troll.

 

He might still be right.

PH

 

I doubt it, getting his basic facts right is something he also struggles with.

 

What is surprising is the energy that gets put into shouting him down. If he were talking the nonsense then I would expect a response similar to what good ol' Alf Roberts gets when his latest scheme is announced. Somehow Clog&Knocker seems to be striking pretty close to the bone judging by the hysteria that we see posted here in reply.

 

I'm all in favour of debate, I think it's a more a case of whether he has anything constructive to say, (never), whether he can get his facts right (seemingly never) and whether he says anything that actually advances matters.

Personally, if I ever post a comment about a railway or Gala I always try to make it constructive and to be supportive of those who make a genuine effort to produce something worth while. I can't remember a single post made by Clogger that could even remotely be described in those terms. Check back through the thread and let me know if I'm wrong.

As for shouting him down, well for my part I post on here to ensure that other posters like Sheff, Pwyman and Lil Bear, who work on the line and post on here, know that their efforts are appreciated and that not everyone is fooled by Clogger. I'd be the first to "Like" one of his posts if he made one that was remotely constructive. I can't think of a single one.

Imagine if you put your heart and soul into something and someone came along and continually found fault - you'd probably be as frustrated as Lil Bear and co.

 

C&W is hardly the only poster to bash particular railways or organisations - the thousands of posts concerning the WRSA show how possible it is to fundamentally disagree with the direction that a particular organisation is going. I personally find what is going on at CVR/MCR to be somewhat concerning, mostly because the distinctions between the groups to be far from clear. There may well be reasonable explanations for removal of track from Froghall to Oakamoor and Ipstones to Cauldon, but ripping up track rarely looks good - see the Teifi Valley thread.

 

I volunteered for a very short time at Kingsley and Froghall, and I found the CVR to be a very friendly, well run railway. I was on one of the first Cauldon runs, with the red 8F on point, and loved every second. It makes me sad to read that some people have nothing better to do then slag a decent railway off for no real reason. To all those involved with the CVR, more power to you, keep at it, and please do keep us updated, your progress is always interesting to read of.

Tom.

 

The problem is that they are not easy arguments to follow. Yes, I have read the explanations, and I have no doubt that the decisions taken have been honestly taken. But my concern is about the perception rather than necessarily the reality, as perception in this game carries a lot of sway. Personally I completely agree with the notion of extending into Leek, but the grand plans of a couple of years ago - to be running to Cauldon Low, Alton Towers, Leek and Stoke, does seem to be receding. A clear statement from CVR/MCR could clarify all of this, but surely you can see why some people may have concerns as to whether things are going as they should?

 

As noted by L'il Bear the CVR / MCR are open and happy to answer any questions; in respect of your points I think you'll find the answers are contained in this thread but - only as the situation has changed. Agreed that the CVR started off with grand plans with the support of MCR whose complementary plans looked set to bring a major heritage operation into a new area but then things have been changed by circumstances outwith their control.

Cauldon Lowe - affected by the merger of Tarmac and LaFarge which has consequences for the future of the quarry and cement works hence suspension of activity.
Alton Towers - needs the Stoke connection so is dependent on other factors
Stoke - still on-going but delayed by the legal dispute by one individual at Endon who sought a legal right that never existed.
Leek - currently dependent on the sale of land

As we used to say in my computer office : - "it's difficult to recall that you were intending to drain the swamp when you're being chased off-site by the crocodile" and such is the case here. Progress is being made and it's being reported on here BUT there has never been a specific posting that provides the summary of progress to date which - it appears - you think that you and others would like. Perhaps there is value in a periodic update (e.g. once a month) relating the current state to the overall plan in terms of progress made and if there is sufficient interest in that then L'il Bear or someone connected to the CVR might be able to provide it.

Rest assured however that the CVR / MCR is here - and here to stay.

 

I think a periodic update on progress would be useful, although when councils and planning processes are involved then quite often there will not be much that can be said while applications are pending.

It would also help if there wasn't someone continually muddying the waters....

 

So, in other words, Fred, everything is up in the air.

 

According to the local paper, the Barnfield development (which includes the construction of Leek Station) has received outline approval which will be confirmed next week. This despite our local expert proclaiming it all to be "Pie in the Sky". As Barnfields was submitted at roughly the same time as the LBJ plans, you'd expect the MCR proposal to not be far behind being discussed. Some positive news, though I'll await the negative spin it's bound to generate from certain quarters...

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/21-m...lway-station/story-22916285-detail/story.html

 

Cannot wait to start laying the track back into Leek.

 

After many cold wintry days spent re-installing the loop at Ipstones earlier this year I would prefer the track laying to Leek to start at a more pleasant time of year (unless we could channel the hot air from C&K). I know the extension to Leek is not particularly long but it is a tad longer than the Ipstones loop. A little bit of mechanical assistance would help. However like p/wayman I look forward to completing it.

 

Seeing as people reckon they can cope with criticism, only not from bog & dogger, how about this; when you've got this huge joint network with some heritage track and some.commercial, what rolling stock are you going to be running on it? Obviously freight trains for the quarry with appropriate diesel power I presume, but what about the rest? Loco wise the ones I can think of from my last visit earlier this year 2 non British ones, the tkh and the USA one (or has that gone?) plus a little industrial thing. Non British isn't really of much interest to many enthusiasts.

Also coaches. When I visited, you had a tatty rake of mk 1s (although these look to be improving) and a DMU that also had seen better days. When I mentioned this I was told lack of volunteers, space etc
so what is being done about it?

Once the grand plan has become grand, where will the heritage services run; Alton, Leek, Endon? And where it isn't, what's being used instead, modern DMUs? 'cos as has been discussed before these tend to ruin the heritage feel of the preservation part.

I can fully believe that you will get all the running line you say you will, but what to run on it?

 

I like the sound of a North Staffs museum at the new site. There is one at Chedd at the moment but its pretty small. The history of the Knotty and its interaction with other pre-grouping lines, its significance in its home area, its contribution to the LMS (I think both Coleman and H G Ivatt were graduates of the works at Stoke) all deserve to be told more fully than they can be in the small amount of space at Chedd.