Help needed please : BR Standard Britannia class Pre 1968 : or is it?

Evening All

I hope you will allow this to stay in the Steam category as there is no Questions section

I have this photo in my collection showing Britannia 70004 William Shakespeare
i feel the quality is too good for a pre 68 is it in fact either 70000 or 70013 in disguise hauling the Orient Express Pullman stock
any help please with a date or what the working was
http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/BRStandardSteam/Britannias/7000070008/70004-William-Shakespeare-/
many thanks
Neil

 

I know the first vehicle does look pre 68, it was just the good quality of the photo that threw me, I know they kept 70004 in top notch condition for the Golden Arrow runs

Thanks Guys

Neil

 

The location is Petts Wood Junction - the date I cannot help you with but note the SR extended lamp irons. These irons were fitted to 70004 & 70014 when allocated to Stewarts Lane for working the Golden Arrow. An identical photo (same engine/train/location) but an obvious different date, is shown in The Book of the Britannia Pacifics.

 

Genuine picture i would date at 1956/7. If you look closely you will notice that the smokebox door hinges, front frame extension leading edges and cab window surrounds are burnished, as are the front buffers.

This only happened when Mr Hardy was in charge at Stewarts Lane and once he had left 'the lane' the Loco's for the Golden Arrow were never prepared to the same high standard. The only later 'embellishment' i can recall was in 1960 when the Bulleids were being used on the service and No's 34091 and 34092 had their front motion brackets painted red. Who's idea that was we will probably never know but the two of them ran with the red paint until steam ended in Kent in June 1961 and the Loco's moved on to the Western Section.

 

Is that a semaphore signal that can just be seen through the exhaust? That must also date it to some extent. Also when did the crest on the tender change to the later one?

 

One of my earliest railway memories is of arriving at Victoria from my grandfather's in St Pauls Cray and peering through the barrier to see an immaculate 70004 at the buffer stops having arrived with the Golden Arrow. It stuck in my mind because my only railway book was the Ladybird Book of Steam Locomotives that depicted this loco in Golden Arrow guise. Must have been early to mid 1950s.

 

Definitely pre 1959 when the Kent Coast electrification work started.
The slow line spur between Bickley Jn and Petts Wood Jn was doubled at this time and was resignalled from the "new" Chislehurst Jn power signal box about 1961.

By the way, SR Van "B"'s survived in traffic until the mid 1980's specifically for the news traffic to Hastings via Robertsbridge.

Cheers, Neil

 

Neil, I was involved with 70000 for over 20 years and can say that the subtle changes in appearance would date that photo as a 1950's one. It is most definitely NOT either 70000 or 70013 in preservation!

 

Agreed, 70000 can be eliminated... It was air braked, this is vac only, it also doesn't have no overhead warning flashes on it. 70013 has only run with its late 60's logo on in preservation.

Nice genuine photo.

 

This is GENUINE; I think the image was taken by Brian Morrison but - if not - Brian has certainly taken many images of this train from that spot.

 

According to my book, it's nameplates were removed in June 66..