The Steam Ban around York

Has the Deltic got issues meaning it can't run or is it that a faster path is needed than originally planned for.

My point was that if it is merely that the Deltic has a problem, surely a 47/57 isn't drastically different when it comes to accelerating, therefore could have been subsituted. If times dictate that faster acceleration is needed then clearly the 86 will win out.

 

Cracked cylinder liner on KOYLI. Running on one engine only at present.

 

Surely these alleged crewing issues only arise when DBS have actually agreed to do a move and then cancel? I can say with some certainty that that isn't what has happened with regard to 5029's return south. A lot is said on the internet which is just based on casual, secondhand information and, whilst sometimes there may be an element of truth somewhere within, the true picture is a little more complex.

*Edit* I should add, for clarity, that no criticism of Sheff's post was intended and I share his hope that DBS do run more steam next year.

 

In 2010 on the Siver Jubilee when 60019 and 6233 have steaming problems due to poor coal, we returned from Newcastle behind a 47 in just over 4 hours.

 

Does it never happen that they are asked to do a move and reply that they can't because they can't find a crew?

 

The latest Steam Railway reports a temporary lifting of the ban. If it is in SR then this was the status some weeks ago, but it seemed to remain speculation or no lifting here, unless I lost track around page 20 or somewhere there.

David

 

I'm sure it does but I guess any other supplier of services (including, I suspect, WCRC) does exactly the same from time to time. If you wanted a plumber and he was fully booked then he wouldn't be able to come out and unblock your drain. It seems that DB can't win - last year they were criticised for committing to work they then found they couldn't cover but, when they reign things in to a level that they can manage to resource, they're criticised for apparently turning work down.

 

The subject came up at the annual A1/P2 convention, where it was stated that DBS had sorted out their issues, and would be offering more than enough dates to meet demand, or whatever the correct term is.

 

Says it was announced to West Coast on the 30th of September.
Reading between the lines it seems to mean the ban is still there, but temporary suspended. A fragile situation.
Any slight chance of fire risk & the ban comes straight back in as quoted by PV.

 

Ralph is right, a pointless jibe, SD and RTC have to make up their minds which TOC they want to run their trains, you just can't mix and pick which TOC you want to run certain trains that would conflict and never work, there has to be a signed contract between the TOC and charter companies, you can't run back and forth between TOC's you either have DBS or WCR not a mixture of both SD had crewing troubles with DBS and switched to WCR.

 

Not strictly true. After using Merlin in the early days, and then Fragonset, SD used both DBS/EWS and WCRC for several years, though I don't know how they decided which TOC to appoint for any particular train. However, you are right that, even if using both TOCs, the contract for each train has to be agreed well in advance. As we've discussed at length on here over the years, SD had a number of commitment and quality problems from both TOCs at different times, so asked them each to tender for all the work. DBS got the job but, as we know now, found they couldn't handle it. The risk of using both is that either may treat you as less important than a promoter that uses just one

 

Both UKRT and Pathfinder use different suppliers for their diesel and electric hauled trains and as has already been pointed out SD have used WCRC and DB in the past so there's plenty of evidence to suggest such a situation is more than feasible.

 

That is part of the reason DBS are unlikely to ever have a big share of the steam market again, How many incidents in the past have been down to air brake systems never originally designed for that locomotive throwing a wobbler ?, a number of loco owner/groups won't touch air braking for this reason.

Even if you discount crewing issues for DBS, if you have two companies chasing your custom, one willing to do near on anything you ask, the other coming with various strings and conditions attached which seriously impede what you wish to do, who are your more likely to side with ?.

The Basic fact is DBS purposefully puts itself at a disadvantage as far as steam operation is concerned from the outset.

 

And there's nothing wrong with that. They have a steam safety case for railway marketing / PR reasons rather than commercial... in short it's a fun hobby not a profitable business.

 

Granted it's their perogative to do so, but in that case it shoulden't come as a surprise when their share of the market is minimal.

 

Well let's judge them again next year, see how their performance measures up to their promises. As far as vacuum braked stock goes - I wouldn't bank on it having a long life time ahead of it. As for air-braking not being designed for a particular loco, well I'm not a fan due to poor reliability, but plenty of locos were air-braked years ago (GER, NER etc) and I really don't think the pump knows what type of loco it's attached to. The key is to improve reliability and where possible accessibility. I don't thick any one is manufacturing new pumps, and some of the refurbishing seems to leave a lot to be desired.

 

There's always Polish Air Pumps.. the size of an oil drum, sound like a jack hammer and need whacking with a spanner on a regular basis.. but like all communist era stuff... will survive a nuclear holocaust and a russian winter to keep on running, but not necessarily with a timetable in mind.

 

This thread has drifted again, via DBS to air braking. Maybe time for a new thread?
I was on the 14th June Cumbrian Coast Express. When we got back to Carnforth for a change of traction from steam to electric, there was a problem with the change of braking system from vacuum to air, which caused a slight delay. I think the electric loco could have used vacuum but I was given to understand that they preferred to change to air, despite the delay, because the brakes can be applied and released more quickly. Given that, and the fact that all mainline stock can use air braking, it would seem desirable to sort out whatever issues there are with air pumps on steam and fit them to more locos. The rest of the air braking system (reservoirs, pipes, valves, etc) must have good reliability considering its almost universal use other than with steam traction. And presumably the reliability of the pumps themselves was good enough when they were in widespread use one some lines in Britain.

 

I'd query "not a profitable business". The railfreight business is highly competitve and, whilst DBS' charter business (both steam and diesel) is only a fraction of its turnover, it is likely to yield a higher profit ratio. , otherwise they wouldn't bother.