13065/42765 'Crab'

"The CRAB was almost wholly designed by E.S. (Stuart) Cox."

Yes, but this brings back the debate of who actually designed the CME's engines!

It was rarely the CME himself after about the late 1800s who did this: he was far too busy. He would have a team of engineers and draughsmen to do the physical work under his rather broad directions. Ultimately though, it was the CME who carried the responsibility for any success or failure; witness William Stanier when his new Class 5XP engines failed to steam. He was the one who had signed off the drawings, as was and is normal practice.

The CME did not sit at a drawing board and physically draw the engine or its components, but George Hughes was in the habit of once every week or so sitting with his draughsman and talking through individual designs, which must have been rather unnerving for them. He was though a gentleman who treated his workforce courteously: he got on the same tram to take him from his Bolton home the the Works as they used. But it did mean that he would be fully aware of a design's characteristics, and this would be especially so with the Crabs. Even before his retirement, he was having to fend off Fowler's attempts at 'Midlanisation' so had to be fully briefed on what he was defending.

The only CME I have heard of who DID sit down occassionally at the drawing board was Nigel Gresley, simply because it was an activity he enjoyed. It wasn't actually part of his job, but everyone needs a little relaxation and time to himself sometimes. Likewise it was no part of Henry Fowler's job to put on a pair of overalls, climb into a firebox and begin sounding stays, although he did so, especially if conducting visitors around a shed or works.

 

I'll echo those comments. From my experience of 53809, they aren't the best of loco designs. There's no leeway in the boiler; everything has to be spot on to keep it on the mark and most NYMR firemen preferred alternative motive power. Not too bad for the driver, though.

 

to get backon subject is this engine going to steam anytime soon?

 

Yes, probably won't make Oct 19/20 gala but fairly soon after (crossed fingers)

 

Is that an official assessment?

 

It's as good as you're going to get..............now final re-assembly and fitting of tubes together with outstanding snagging issues.

 

Do you mean superheater elements? The tubes were fitted at LNWR Crewe.

 

Agreed, the CME was the head of department who set the policy, answered director's questions and managed to the workshops in addition to managing the design team. William Stanier was actually on secondment to India to investigate a series of derailments whilst the Princess Coronation 4-6-2s were being designed by the Derby Drawing Office, lead by ex Kerr Stuart Premium Apprentice and former Port Vale footballer Tommy Coleman.

Gareth

 

The exact role varied with railway company: for example, Dugald Drummond on the LSWR was responsible for both locomotive construction and locomotive running (i.e. being the head of department for both the workshop and the running sheds) but other railways separated those roles. Some railways also included carriage and wagon construction within the responsibilities, and others didn't. On the LBSCR, Stroudley even had responsibility for all the company's shipping, to the extent of inventing (or at least, having his name on a patent!) a novel design of paddle wheel - I believe that the drawing office took quite an active role in ship design, not just outsourcing it to specialist shipbuilders.

But the general point is good: with responsibility for the finances and operation of a huge department, and planning future construction programmes to meet traffic requirements, and seeking board approval for all those duties, it is not surprising if the one thing a locomotive designer didn't do was actually design locomotives! At least not in an active sense of sitting behind a drawing board.

Tom

 

i'm be happy even if it was in improved engine green, there are too many locos in br livery today

 

To coin a phrase BR livery is 'what the kids want' 1300 attracted minor enthusiast interest in L&Y livery now its in BR livery that interest has increased tenfold on all fronts.

 

FUJIMO stands for a very naughty first word beginning with F (I will let you work it out, for fear of risking censure) followed by U Jack Im Moving Out. In other words, he won't bother posting anything in future. If you have a look at Spencers previous postings, the vast majority are of an ELR based nature. Whilst he may not be a official spokesman, or be in a position to officially comment, he would appear to be someone who has a certain amount of in the know knowledge. I certainly wouldn't class his postings as "idle speculation". Anyway, it's good to hear the restoration is nearing completion.

 

L&Y livery?

 

3855 is talking about L & Y A Class 1300 not Crab 13000.

 

Had a look at 13065 today. Good progress is being made. Top half of cab, including the roof, is still to go back. Quite a bit of work to do on fitting out the smokebox . No completion date yet. It is going to look good, though, once it is up and running.

 

13065 may not be present at the Autumn Steam Gala, but might be finished in time for the Santa Specials

 

Well they are an annual occurrence.
Sure the team is working tirelessly to complete the job while others pontificate. Someday soon the speculation will prove right.

 

Not heard anything of late regarding the Crab, does anyone know if a return to steam is imminent?