If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

35028 Clan Line to Canterbury Saturday 23rd May

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by alastair, May 18, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    The only operational West Coast Railway Company carriages not listed on the Section 5 exemption certificate are those fitted with central door locking and are later build Mark 2 stock with air-conditioning. These are not particularly suited to steam hauled excursions and as such the company may well have never considered the need to seek exemption for them. It might even be that 3360 and 3362 are not fitted with secondary door locking, something that perhaps can be clarified by a participant on todays train. The Platform 5 books only list which carriages have central door locking. Any not so fitted but used to convey fare paying passengers would though be expected to have been fitted with secondary door locking and be listed on a Section 5 exemption certificate.
     
  2. geekfindergeneral

    geekfindergeneral Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    224
    Occupation:
    Railwayman
    Location:
    London UK
    If a psychiatrist had been present at Carnforth yesterday, the diagnosis would have been "psychotic episode" and a long term sick note for David Smith while he gets help with his issues. In a proper TOC he would likely have been escorted from the premises. ORR have bent over backwards to keep the steam show on the road by putting WCR into "special measures" as if it were a failing hospital or school. Their reward is to be made to look stupid. ORR find themselves a Shadow Director (as per the law) of an enterprise that has just wilfully spoiled 300+ passengers day out, simply because it can.

    The good thing is that MNLPS have been around a long time, they command professional respect wherever they go, and they know a lot of people. The atmospherics in the industry last night were the most vitriolic I have seen in 30 years. This time, David Smith has kicked the wrong dog.
     
    conrailuk likes this.
  3. 8126

    8126 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    810
    Gender:
    Male
    You mean like this set of Mk2 air cons, that just happen to be forming the train today, and always were going to be the train?

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/ja_60163/17811830769/in/photolist-

    There was always going to have to be an ETS unit of some sort to power the aircon on a nice May day, but Tangmere has dragged this train+diesel around many a time. Clan Line does it with the VSOE Pullmans and a 67. I cannot believe that the operators could have got to yesterday morning and gone: "You know we need a diesel for this? Crap, better cancel Clan Line." Right now, it simply isn't worth that sort of bad PR.
     
  4. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    As I stated in my first post on the topic the majority of carriages used in Statesman formations are sourced from Rail Flims are are included on their Section 5 exemption http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/1936/reg5-cert-railfilms-2013-03-30.pdf . You may though be getting confused with the 'Lakeland Pullman' set of West Coast Railway Railway Company Mark 2 Pullmans that have Section 5 exemption when it comes to TANGMERE. The Belmond British Pullman set also has Section 5 exemption http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/5238/vsoe-bp-reg5-certificate.pdf

    With regard to ETS it is not unusual to run air-conditioned formations without an ETS supply for often lengthy distances. I have travelled on many over the years. Dragging an ETS locomotive is fine and it can be used for heating but is that always the case with the Belmond British Pullman that has its own ETS generator car. Perhaps someone can clarify the current rules but if the trailing locomotive is running and providing ETS does it need to manned? I understand it is acceptable to tow a dead locomotive on the rear that can then be used as required for movements. From what has been posted only one DB Schenker footplate crew were rostered for each leg, could this also be a factor even if a Class 67 was to be included in the formation.?

    As an earlier poster pointed out and it is why I have added these posts regarding carriages. The issues regarding the withdrawal of CLAN LINE from the train may well relate more to Open Firsts 3360 and 3362 inclusion in the formation rather than anything else. It may be related to their lack of a Section 5 exemption it may be something else. It is quite clear the train today is being operated by DB Schenker. DB Schenker are able to operate formations including West Coast Railway Company carriages subject to their own audit.
     
  5. geekfindergeneral

    geekfindergeneral Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    224
    Occupation:
    Railwayman
    Location:
    London UK
    It is nothing to do with door locks or engines making electricity. The train was fully resourced by DBS, with a 67 on the back and a grown up train crew who know the engines and the road, plus a support crew who are all known to DBS (in a good way). DBS were ready to go, and the train was fully compliant. It was stopped by a single clown having a hissy fit, 260 miles north of Stewart's Lane.
     
    conrailuk likes this.
  6. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bristol
    Tour arrived in Canterbury 3 early after the predicted trundle. Don't understand point re central locking. It is being used in coach I am in, which also has secondary bolt. If set is OK to be hauled by DBS air braked diesel why is it not OK to be worked by DBS operated air braked steam? Whole thing is a joke.
     
    9001 likes this.
  7. spicer21

    spicer21 Guest

    With you 100% and so pleased that the reality of Smith and his organisation has finally hit home! For a long time now we've had the usual suspects emerge to stand up for this individual and now it seems that's come to an end. By the way, those usual suspects are conspicuously absent from this thread. I wonder why!
     
  8. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bristol
    I should have added that the booked layover in Battersea loop was enforced so the 67 had to run round. Gave some people a peek at the puppies in the dogs home. Llamas (or were they Alpacas?) spotted nr Hildenborough. Trying to see the positive! Oh, and 37 mph into Polhill Tunnel and 58 max so far in Kent. As Elvis Costello said 'I would rather be anywhere else than here today'. Fellow passengers good company though, and the Dunkirk spirit is emerging. Rather appropriate, given the anniversary.
     
    spicer21 and green five like this.
  9. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,902
    Likes Received:
    199
    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    I wonder if he is jealous about anything 35028?
     
  10. Rich and Louise

    Rich and Louise New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    92
    Gender:
    Male
    Ok I'll defend him. Whatever happened to 'Innocent until proven guilty (or caught red handed)'?

    He may well have lost it over something (with MNLPS?) at the last moment, he definitely seems to be temperamental, but is it just a coincidence that the ORR compliance notice was issued only on Wednesday? Maybe there's something in that that affected 35028 being used even though DBS are running the train.

    There's two sides to every story, and some people seem to have quickly forgotten just how much we have to be grateful to this (definitely imperfect) individual.
     
  11. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    The restructure, if implemented effectively, will reduce the level of autonomy one man has enjoyed. The ORR requirements too will demand a greater degree of formalised procedure and transparency about the way business is conducted. Both these will present radical changes for somebody who might justifiably consider himself to have been successful largely without being accountable to anyone but himself. Change is always a cause of stress which might provoke irrational behaviour.
     
    Rich and Louise likes this.
  12. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    33,332
    Likes Received:
    7,409
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Agreed there are two sides to every story and we only know one, so as usual the speculation is rife and the blame is being handed out by the experts.....
     
  13. spicer21

    spicer21 Guest

    Good old Ralph, puts the L in Loyalty every time, :)
     
    oddsocks and Bean-counter like this.
  14. spindizzy

    spindizzy New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    44
    Whilst I agree that there is always two sides to every story Wayne has taken the trouble to post in this thread and he is very much at the sharp end of things so should know what's what.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    green five likes this.
  15. richards

    richards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,507
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Reading this thread, there is a lot of guesswork and blame being dished out without knowing too many facts. Yes, the steam loco was pulled at the last minute. Apart from that, we are dealing with 3rd or 4th hand info at best. I'm not defending anyone.
     
    Victor and Rich and Louise like this.
  16. alastair

    alastair Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    665
    and of course with Fortress Carnforth's well known policy of never commenting about anything (apart from 1 or 2 rather laughably optimistic "press releases" when they were suspended) we may never know exactly what happened with 35028 and this train. Maybe Statesman will explain on Tuesday?
     
  17. Rich and Louise

    Rich and Louise New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    92
    Gender:
    Male
    But Wayne hasn't actually told us anything, he's just had a rant. If you're going to tell people that someone has had a 'hissy fit' then you must know why. If you don't know why (or can't tell people why for some reason), then don't say anything.
     
  18. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    Dignified silence doesn't really work very well on a discussion forum so a debate between the critics and apologists is somewhat inevitable.
    A few weeks ago Wayne was praised for giving us his welcome insight from a professional perspective. Today he's accused of "having a rant" for doing the same. We were happy to trust what he told us back then and were rightly appreciative. What's changed?
     
    spicer21, oddsocks, spindizzy and 2 others like this.
  19. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    Is statesman routinely using DBS for its diesel tours now? If so maybe its been indicated the steam ones will go that way too in due course.
     
  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,093
    Likes Received:
    9,308
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    This whole situation is just totally confusing, are the rail films set owned by West coast? if not why was west coast involved, if it was using coaches on hire from West coast, could they have been replaced with 2 other Airbraked coaches West coast has used Clan line in the past, without issue, so why was it thought necesary to stand the engine down if the tour needed a diesel to provide power for air con or electric locking then that should have not effected what was at the head, as a 67 would have been on the back
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page