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4464 Bittern to do 90mph on ECML - 29 June & 27 July 2013

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by buseng, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    The 29th June is also on the Pathfinder website.

    The 19th July mentions only 10 coaches.

    The 1st and 3rd trips are only First or Dining, while standard class seats are available on the 2nd trip.
     
  2. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Stand corrected,

    June 29th is Down ex KX 4464
    July 27th is Up to KX with 4464

    Edit: just found out July 19th is York-Newcastle-York @90mph.

    steam dreams was showing 1 as sold out, but just looked again and both are now sold out.
     
  3. Stephensons_Ghost

    Stephensons_Ghost New Member

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    Doesn't look sold out yet.
     
  4. pjhliners

    pjhliners Member Friend

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    Pathfinder still showing seats at all prices for all three tours

    Peter, on a grey Manchester evening
    Zenfolio | Peter Hewitt's Transport Pictures
     
  5. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Yep booked one via pathfinders website.
    tried both on SD, got as far as payment and told me otwas sold out.
     
  6. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

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    Hold on a minute. How can you expect the tours to be sold out already when there is absolutely no guarantee that the trains will run at 90mph at all.

    What annoys me somewhat are the banner Steam Railway magazine headlines on the cover and inside stating "90mph A4", "Bittern to celebrate Mallard's record with 90mph sprints" and "Up to 90mph for Mallard's anniversary" as if it is all done and dusted. But it isn't by any means.

    Just read the small print and you will realise that the first step is a high speed test and assessment run on the GW mainline from Southall during a night in May. Assuming that works out okay, the drivers may not wish to drive at 90mph anyway. What is more, pathing is likely to be a big problem because, as the magazine states, even at 90mph it will slow by ECML standards! So let us all agree that it is by no means certain that 90mph running will actually take place and this is the dilemma for me and other potential passengers to pay up now without a guarantee of high speed running but just keep our fingers crossed that it is all agreed and it does actually happen. One heck of a financial gamble!

    Don't get me wrong, the prospect is spine tingling and in mainline preservation having raced down Whiteball behind Union of South Africa at 100mph and Taw Valley through Winchester at 89mph the thought of doing 90mph on the ECML in 2013 is mouth watering indeed. But please do not bury your heads in the sand and think that it will happen for certain. It might not.
     
  7. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    Can't say I'm all that excited by an extra 15mph, especially at the price. 100mph, that's a full third more and of course has the magic. But 90?

    Well done to those who have achieved it though.
     
  8. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    On the assumption that the trips betwen London and York will have the second tender, and allowing for a light load to ensure that the locomotive is not flogged, I think that one can expect only 7 or 8 coaches. That would explain the prices and total lack of standard class accommodation. I'd love a 100mph run, because "47s" are only passed for 95mph and they'd have to leave it behind!
     
  9. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    Well it will make a change doing it with official sanction for once. Possibly a mistake advertising before the testing has been done but given the design remit and historic performance levels of the class the organisers probably have the right to feel confident. Given 60009's history it appears unusual to make 4464 the first choice but the livery question may have driven the issue. 90 mph does appear to be a safe choice and we should be grateful, but I cannot help but wonder..........
     
  10. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    May well be wrong but isn't the current 75 mph subject to a "+10%" margin if the footplate inspector deems it necessary and safe to do so? Add 10% to 90 mph and what have you got? :)
     
  11. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Ian . The thought had crossed my mind two . Assuming no fire risk :) the southbound run on the 27th may be the one . Fast assault on Stoke Bank and then let her have her head down the other side . Must get out the recording of 60007 at 112 back in 1959 again
     
  12. m&gn50

    m&gn50 New Member

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    There goes my Cambrian/Mazey diesel budget, well done everyone. Hope for a momentary maximum of 91 maybe? I've seen the dynanometer recordings at 125mph...
    SERIOUS SUGGESTION, what about a 'mock' TEAK livery for those Mark 1s?!?
     
  13. polmadie

    polmadie Well-Known Member

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    Could it be 99?
     
  14. spicer21

    spicer21 Guest

    Possibly during the test run in May, but unlikely on the public runs I'd say. Like Hatherton Hall, I would err on the side of caution about this until everything is rubber stamped following the test run. Assuming that goes ok I would expect the chances of 90mph running actually happening on the public runs to be high.

    Despite the counter claims, I would also suggest that if this experiment works to the satisfaction of all concerned we might see dispensation for faster running being granted on future runs. Not suggesting it will become the norm, but suspect the "one month only" condition of these runs may have been amplified to a degree in an effort to guarantee capacity loadings ?

    Time will tell
     
  15. Midland Red

    Midland Red New Member

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    I guess that these runs will be made with air-braked stock - so DBS worked.
     
  16. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    I'd have hardly thought letting an A4, (or virtually any UK main line pacific), run at 90 mph down Stoke Bank counts as "let her have her head", but I know what you are saying. That class has a rather fine track record of descending Stoke Bank with almost any load, from light to quite heavy, and of being able to run very fast indeed. And I do have some experience of totally worn out Bulleids running at high speeds on grades far, far easier than Stoke Bank. Including a vewpoint from standing immediately behind the drivers on some runs, (including 35003's 106 mph run in late June 1967). Plus numerous runs timed way into the 90s and at, and over 100 mph. So I do have some experience of seeing first hand what is needed to get a decent pacific into speed.

    One of the best IMHO, was Light Pacific 34087 just over ten days before the end of steam, (I was in the train that night as I mostly was, there was a queuing system for footplate rides). Starting from Basingstoke and using the grades that mostly, if not totally, (there was one short up hill section), only gently favoured the loco to take a 12 car train up to over 90 mph on the virtually level track between Fleet and Farnborough.

    Of course it's all different in todays railways. Although I strongly suspect the currently operational main line steam fleet is in a far, far better underlying mechanical state than those Bulleids in their last months of use.

    My own approach to 90 mph running this year would have been different to that proposed. Starting with dispensation for short stretches of say 5 miles, firstly at 80 mph then at 85 mph in the weeks leading up to the 90 mph running. All on normal steam tours. Just to get crews etc used to an official progressive small increase in speed and to make sure that after decades of running mostly at a max of around 75 mph there were not unforseen problems with the locos. And also I would have thought that in todays H & S society that would establish a far better record of the build up to an even higher speed.

    Only my idea of course, and what do I know about these things, I'm only an armchair commentator. Although that armchair has got uncomfortable a few times. Like going through Farnborough, (65 mph limit), at 83 hanging on for dear life behind driver the late Gordon Porter on the footplate of 34101 early one morning on the Up Mail, being one such lively armchair moment! Or the fast Standard Class Five run I had when, as I climbed up into the cab, the driver said I'd need a very strong jockstrap to survive speed on a very, very rough loco. Still can't believe I managed to father two daughters after that run! Not immediately afterwards, I hasten to add. It was a pretty liberal society back then with all the footplate rides etc, but not that liberal. LOL!
     
  17. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    Should such statements be made public? You don't know who is reading this.
     
  18. Desiro450

    Desiro450 Guest

    Yes, you never know. Best highlight them in red so it brings it to everyones attention!!!:fish:
     
  19. malc

    malc Well-Known Member

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    I suspect they will be DBS operated, but WCR also regularly operate air-braled stock (i.e. it's not simply air=DBS, vac=WCR - it's more case of vac=probably, but not necessarily, WCR, air=DBS or WCR).
     
  20. malc

    malc Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I'm sure "the authorities" are already well aware of those runs.
     

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