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6023 + 6024 Double Header to Plymouth - 10 March 2012 - UK Steam

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by j4141, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. campainr

    campainr New Member

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    So hang on a minute. I meant that the engine added would be second from the front, so if 6024 was added at Taunton it would end up behind 60163 if it was attached with its support coach. Does that make 6024 the "pilot" to the GWR?
     
  2. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    Yes in GWR practice, 6024 as pilot engine would be attached in behind 60163.
     
  3. ashtav0

    ashtav0 New Member

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    Any news on the engine replacement and times for the tour .
     
  4. alastair

    alastair Member

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    I am booked on this one. Spoke to SD this morning,no definite times yet although hoped for tomorrow. Officially, no confirmation of replacement loco yet. They hope to get tickets out tomorrow.
     
  5. Ianb47306

    Ianb47306 New Member

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    Having just spoke to Steam Dreams I can tell you that the replacement engine is going to be a class 47, assisting from Exeter. Suffice to say our party aren't particularly impressed! Allegedly 6024 is broke and the only other loco that could have worked is 35028, as to why that is unavailable I have no idea. The Steam Dreams staff seemed pretty clueless really - they even professed that the tour had never been rostered for two Kings!

    The outline times we were given are as follows:

    London Paddington P1: Dep. 08:06 Return. 22.55
    Slough. Dep. 08:36 Return. 22:33
    Reading. Dep. 09:04 Return. 22:11
    Newbury. Dep. 09:45 Return. 21:44
    Exeter. 13:02 18:55
    Plymouth. Arr. 14:19 Dep. 17:05

    (I'm not too sure whether the Exeter times are arrivals or departures - its not very clear on what I've been given).


    Hope this helps everyone.
     
  6. Alberta 45562

    Alberta 45562 Member

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    47815 then................. (as that's the only operational one at Eastleigh,don't think it would be 847?) Will have to run LE to Exeter,would make more sense to have it bring ECS up and then stay on back till EXD.....
     
  7. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Everytime I looked at SD's website I only ever saw 1 king advertised (even if here and other threads / websites said otherwise), don't know if it was in the printed material ?
    However for that reason I never booked this tour.

    In the past on runs by 60163 EWS has run a LE immediately behind the tour (think back to those early 2009/10 runs by Tornado), as it will need a driver to drive the 47 it's here nor there if it's on the back or 1 section behind... but my guess would be it's LE behind from past behaviour.

    Before blaming SD, consider this isn't really their fault, it's short notice locomotive availability issues. (6023 is out, as is 6024, and other engines like 5029 are not available).
    If you really need to point the blame for compensation maybe it should be to those responsible for 71000 being unavailable ?

    However there is a case for saying that the industry would do well to consider having "back up" plans for "unusual one off" tours, It not always possible to have a locomotive pool, how much does it really cost to ask a locomotive group to be on "cold standby" alert in their diary for upto a week before a tour to "scratch someone else's back if neccessary"... these engines are not out every week and equally not everyone can respond at short notice but a bit of insurance foresight as these things do happen.

    A week or two's notice to follow up a "can you be available if needed" put in someones diary a few months before.. wouldn't cost anything. Granted in the immediate few days before a tour it may be too late. How hard would it be to book 60163+71000 and book 1 extra for insurance to deputise if anything happens upto 1-3 weeks before a tour. (To be clear I am not suggesting it be in steam on the day just in case). In this case maybe 70000, or 4464, and it's own back up for 70000 this weekend could well have been 46115 perhaps ?.. in which case it would have been win - win all round and that planned weekend for maintenance could have been put back or forwards to a different date with the "possible insurance job" in mind.
    Tours could even be advertised like this (I doubt anyone would seriously mind, and would probably feel more secure) in knowing what the plan B might entail.

    Some are better than others at this and there are those who do the herculean tasks in the days before to save a tour.. but sometimes with a little free fore thought we could give poor old Hercules a rest.

    Dont shoot me down i'm just chucking an idea out there, it maybe already practised and I don't know ?
     
  8. Alberta 45562

    Alberta 45562 Member

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    Don't think anyone can blame SD,none of this is their fault (again),its whoever caused the Duke incident that is to blame.
     
  9. Ianb47306

    Ianb47306 New Member

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    Come to think of it a 47 doesn't sound very likely when it would have to travel from Eastleigh - in retrospect I fully expect a 67 or a 66 will turn up from either Bristol or Westbury.

    I do agree though, if it were to be a 47, it almost certainly wouldn't be 847. I'll be very surprised to see that running on the mainline again any time soon.
     
  10. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

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  11. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Member

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    Just received tickets with the following note:

    "The train is scheduled to be hauled from London Paddington to Plymouth by 60163 Tornado but unfortunately our second locomotive, 71000 Duke of Gloucester has been involved in a collision and is unavailable. We had hoped to obtain the services of 6024 King Edward I but this has not been possible due to an issue with the locomotive that cannot be repaired in time for the trip. We are pleased however that with some adjustments to the programme we will be able to have steam haulage from London to Exeter and Plymouth and return with Tornado. A diesel will join the train at Exeter on the outward journey to help where required on the steep section between Exeter to Plymouth and will leave the train at Exeter on the return. It is planned that Tornado will lead the train throughout the day."

    No mention of it being a Class 47 and frankly who cares? A box is a box!

    I wonder whether "It is planned that Tornado will lead the train throughout the day" means the box will be on the back or coupled behind Tornado?

    They are also offering 10% discount on next year's train for anyone who feels aggrieved!
     
  12. ashtav0

    ashtav0 New Member

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    Thanks very much for this infomation shame it wont be double steam but something is always better than nothing although if I was booked on this one I would be slightly dissapointed.
     
  13. Oakfield

    Oakfield Guest

    Just confirms my view that these over ambitious 'one offs' are not worth the risk of booking on. If I had booked on this for double headed King haulage, as first announced, I would be well hacked off.
     
  14. Oberlokführer

    Oberlokführer New Member

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    Two crap sounding engines on the front from Exeter then!:behindsofa:
     
  15. Ianb47306

    Ianb47306 New Member

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    As you say, I don't think that the two Kings were ever advertised on the website for this tour (which did worry me a little), but Marcus Robertson told us in person on the Atlantic Coast Express last September that it would be 6023 and 6024 to Plymouth - it was on the strength of this that we booked. I seem to recall that a leaflet they handed out on the ACE may well have also advertised the two Kings, but even if it did, it has long been consigned to the recycling bin.

    As the tour will need a diesel to haul the ECS into Paddington, DB could just leave this attached on the rear or have it follow the train LE to Exeter, however, as it will probably pass numerous DB engines sitting at Westbury it hardly seems the best use of resources. We'll just have to wait and see on the day.

    I agree, this situation is not entirely SD's fault and I'm not really looking to point blame at anyone - we just have to accept the situation for what it is. However, please consider the fact that our party booked on a tour advertised for two Kings. When it transpired 6023 would be unavailable (which I accept is well beyond SD's control) we were suddenly stuck with 71000 and 60163 - no mention of why 6024 was unavailable (and as 6024 was suggested to be the replacement for 71000 you have to question if 6024 was unavailable at all or if SD just thought 60163 & 71000 sounded more attractive). At that stage when this revision came to light we could have cancelled our booking, fair enough, but in doing so we would have incurred all sorts of other costs - the minimum 10% of the booking fee that SD retain, travel expenses, accommodation, several days booked off work and so on...making that option not particularly viable.
    I don't think it's very fair for charter operators to change to goalposts like this and whilst I appreciate it is not just limited to SD, it seems all to often to be the case with them. I foresee a similar situation before the 3rd May as I very much doubt 34046 will be completed by then.
     
  16. malc

    malc Member

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    Not sure who Ianb47306 spoke to but I have been asked by Steam Dreams to point out that it was indeed originally planned that the tour would be hauled by the two Kings.

    I was also going to post the extract of the letter that came with the tickets, but 6026 King John beat me to it.

    Personally, I'm disappointed that it's not going to be double-headed steam, but being philosophical, London to Exeter and return (nearly 350 miles) steam-hauled by Tornado isn't too bad.
     
  17. Ianb47306

    Ianb47306 New Member

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    Unfortunately, we haven't received the letter as yet and as we are coming down to London early we opted to ring SD instead - I was only passing on what we were told.

    To many on here a box may be a box, but some boxes are better than others. :smile:

    I'm trying to recall when any DB worked train has featured diesel assistance - the only example I can think of so far was when 47815 aided 71000 on a Torbay Express last year and on that occasion the 47 was between the Duke and the train.

    Maybe it's just me, but a 10% discount of next years trip is not a very good offer to those who a) can't go or b) have no interest in going again.
     
  18. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Current standard fare for this tour: £89

    Current fare from next month in standard is £99. (Price increase.. 11%, for most trips in the SD portfolio in 2012)

    So assuming £99 fare With 10% Discount off in 2013

    £99 - (10%) = £89.10

    All assuming no fare increase in 2013 as well.
    However you will get "crisp, white tablecloths".
     
  19. Oakfield

    Oakfield Guest

    I feel that a refund of at least 30% would be needed to compensate. After all SD have just reduced their costs for the day by around £5K
     
  20. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    It seems once again that a TOC are being taken to task over something which is out of their control. So what should they do? give up trying to run anything a bit different just in case it doesn't work, or continue to be innovative and suffer the wrath of some if they don't keep to something that was planned many months ago.
     

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