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Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 61624, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    It was all very different when originally proposed circa 2004/5 though Mr Moyes as you will remember. Hence why I say it took a change in attitude amongst some for conductors to be a method of ops tolerated by certain vocal steam crews. And a welcome change it eventually was you rightly take credit for.
     
  2. andi

    andi New Member

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    I take no credit for it. I think it's just down to a general willingness to see the railway succeed as a whole. But it has been different in the past. Onwards and upwards as they say.
    It'd be nice to have it on the Lancs again. I suppose time will tell.
     
  3. 3855

    3855 Member

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    There is a balance to be had in all this, the problem with being a loco owner is you spend a vast amount of time and a very large sum of money to get it running often with little or no encouragement from others and once its done every tom, dick and harry expects to waltz on the footplate for a grand day out thinking its their divine right to do so.

    As time passes i think there will be fewer working locos due to the shear cost and effort involved in their overhaul and repair and further compromises between owners and operators re crewing such as selective rostering will become the norm.
     
  4. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    And then when they break it you don't see them for dust or blame the owner for a bad job, I bet?
     
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  5. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The other side of the coin is that, in order to run the loco, you need a railway on which to do it. You can argue that the railway has the right to dictate the terms as it is their safety case it is running on. I'm sure that, if their was an incident, the ORR would not accept the argument that it was the owners prerogative to drive it.
     
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  6. andi

    andi New Member

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    There are two sides to every argument and I for one can see both sides. Most of us know that all engines, whilst work on the same principles have their own quirks and differences and in the same way owners have their own ideas how their engines should be operated and cared for.
    Now if a engine is to visit a railway for a short period where lots of different crews would be rostered on it. Then I 100% support the idea of owner operators with conductor crews. If a loco is to be based at a certain railway then after a period of familiarisation an owners rep is sufficient to be there to offer advice and over see the operation and a view to the owner and choice members of its crew to be assessed and if the desired standard is reached passed for operating his/her machine.
    I know If I'm driving I would always offer the owners rep a go.
    And to add further. I believe in the diesel fraternity it's the norm that the owner operates their loco with a conductor
     
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  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    There are many locos with individual owners but I think it is unusual (or simply the owner's prerogative in the case of the B1 - and why not?) for the people driving them to be restricted. There is, of course, a difference between the main line and heritage lines although I can think of an instance when the loco owner drove an ECS movement on the ML under supervision.

    For many loco owning groups, over time there has inevitably developed a vast knowledge base about any particular locomotive, how to maintain it, fire it and the optimum way to drive it. On the main line the best crews (WC, DBS) pay particular attention to the advice of these experts (as that is what they are) even though they have responsibility for its operation. I think that a few high profile incidents have reminded all professional loco men that within all loco owning groups is expertise that is not be ignored and I hope that the days of "I'm a professional loco man so I know best" are long gone.

    If any restrictions about who drives the loco limit its attraction as a visiting loco on a heritage line then that seems rather shortsighted to me. If the presence of a particular loco is judged to boost visitor numbers and interest then perhaps the regular crews should look at the bigger picture. I'm sure that the public don't care who is driving (safety permitting).
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
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  8. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    If the man can afford to overhaul it himself, then he can leave it in its shed all day and everyday if he wants. Shame it doesn't get seen, but at least it is kept in good condition.

    Mr Boden is quoted as saying "Am I selling the B1 to Jeremy Hosking? No I'm not". Pity he didn't say "No, I'm not selling it to anyone", then the rumour machine could head off to pastures new.
     
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  9. KHARDS

    KHARDS Well-Known Member

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  10. 3855

    3855 Member

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    funny old world eh?
     
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  11. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    A regrettable sign of the ageing ownership of heritage steam traction as more owners will need to consider the future of their charges. Do they adopt the John Cameron solution of museum life, the David Shepherd solution of selling to a heritage line, the NRM solution of limited / controlled main line activity or the 6201 group solution of carrying on and hoping for the best.

    Whilst steam locomotives are expensive to maintain and operate the future depends - as David Smith has often proclaimed - on how long owners are willing to dig (deeply) into their pockets to fund it. In the next decade I can see many other changes in ownership and levels of activity whether on main or heritage lines.
     
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  12. 3855

    3855 Member

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    i can see a lot of the superfluous stuff getting cut up...... money won't be as big an issue as some predict, it will be finding the people to do the work...
     
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  13. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I think you are right, but only to a certain degree. I can foresee a lot of main line diesels having an appointment with the gas axe where there are multiple examples in private hands. Boiler-equipped examples will be at a premium, others less so. Mk 2 & 3 coaches will dwindle in numbers, medium sized industrial diesel shunters will probably fare ok, small ones less so. I don't foresee so many steam locos getting cut up though, for the most part they'll get parked as museum exhibits, particularly as railways mature and develop more shed space. The process of consolidation of locomotive ownership from the hands of individuals to societies has been happening for a while and is likely to continue. Wagons are like to be the biggest casualties of any clear out.
     
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  14. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Member

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    But then the cost of that works shoots up due to demand. There are small moves in the sector with Leaky Finders, Northern Steam and HBSS being recent additions to the world of boiler repair which is usually the most expensive and outscourced part of a locomotives restoration with a never ending queue of work available. Most railways arent' going to hire a qualified boilersmith, build a facility and keep on top of the certifications without thinking about contract work which we've seen go badly a couple of times in history.
     
  15. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Depends on the railway, I'd have thought. The bigger ones are operating sufficiently often and have large enough fleets to occupy fully their boiler department staff without having to take on contract work. The smaller ones will keep the contractors gainfully employed. Over the years we've seen volunteer groups doing less and less on boilers as legislation has tightened, but I'm not sure why volunteers shouldn't take on more - they do seem to in the traction engine world and (cue howls of protest!) boiler work does not strike me as brain surgery! Of course any work carried out has to be done to a high and safe standard but ensuring that is the case is why we have boiler inspectors - and use of specialist contractors does not always guarantee that to be the case!
     
  16. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    As no one has yet mentioned it, I will.
    I hope Mr H repaints it a decent colour rather than the current livery. So that really means Black BR would be my preference, but LNER Black is almost as good.

    I will just get my coat!
     
  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Ahh! A livery debate! How delightful! ;)
    (I happen to agree btw!) :p
     
  18. jsm8b

    jsm8b Part of the furniture

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    Ah the really important question ! :D
     
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  19. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to raise the subject!! Be good to see her like this again one day: 61306-at-leeds-city-station.-it-was-withdrawn-from-service-the-following-day.-september-1967.jpg

    Sent from my XQ-BT52 using Tapatalk
     
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  20. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

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    Just how it looked at Leeds on 30th September 1967 when I saw it on its last day of working for BR. Lovely.
     
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