If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

6201, her new lease of life.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Sidmouth, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    3,521
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    You're assuming that they have a cash stockpile that they can use on whatever project they choose. I very much doubt that this is the case. The restoration bill could be very substantial - it's a big loco and it would appear from comments on here, that it hasn't had a full 'heavy' overhaul for a considerable time.
     
  2. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,832
    Likes Received:
    3,009
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What would make a loco, with little public profile (unlike FS), that is likely to end up earning its keep on mainline charter trains eligible for HLF money?
     
  3. Springs Branch

    Springs Branch New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    193
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    8F
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    45596 ?
     
    Matt37401 likes this.
  4. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,039
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Maybe a question for the likes of the A4 Loco Society or the BLS? They’ve managed to apply to the HLF for cash to get their machines back on the mainline.
     
  5. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,562
    Likes Received:
    2,666
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Getting HLF cash for restoration projects gets harder with every passing year, and for the most part I think that the opportunity has now gone unless the project can be wrapped up in some creative educational aims that use the loco as an illustration of what it is about. Before considering an application it is crucial to look at the HLF guidelines and offer them a project that ties in with what they say they are currently looking for!
     
  6. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    15,786
    Likes Received:
    12,727
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There are several ways such an application could be vested to meet HLF criteria, however whether what appears to be a fairly insular organisation would be prepared to engage with the public to the extent necessary (both during and post application process) is open to interpretation?
     
    26D_M and 3ABescot like this.
  7. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,039
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I don’t think that’s in dispute Martin, a major question that needs to be addressed by those who support 6201 is whether Mr Mojonnier is an asset or liability to the loco he claims to support.
    As I’ve said in previous posts those in charge of 6201 seem to have disagreements everywhere they’ve used as a base for the past 20 years or so. Those that have hosted 6201 can’t all be in the wrong can they?

    I appreciate it’s a hard thing to do after so many years in charge, but maybe those in charge of 6201 and it’s future really need to ask themselves are they really doing the right thing for the loco by staying in their current positions?
     
  8. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,678
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Location:
    Nantwich, Cheshire

    One of the big parts of a HLF grant now is the education purpose of what you are doing. Bahamas had the exhibition coach and the museum as part of that, and with 6201 not having a fixed home or space to do anything then there is little value in it. Its just another steam locomotive.

    Personally a long term hire to west coast or lsl who may be able to do a much deeper overhaul would be a sensible option if they could all agree.
     
    26D_M, Richard Roper and Matt37401 like this.
  9. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,039
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I’ve highlighted the most significant word in your post Gav.
    As someone who’s first love is primarily anything with an EE power unit in it, I’d say my second love railway wise is something big and red and from Crewe or Derby works (46521 is a notable exception! :))

    It’s a real shame to see a decent piece of kit shut away where nobody but the staff of the TOC where it’s stored can see or experience its presence, because of the egos of a few those who just can’t let go of their little power trip.
     
    26D_M likes this.
  10. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Librarian
    Location:
    Just up the road from 56E Sowerby Bridge
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I thought that was what the current deal was, when it was first announced that 6201 was going to Carnforth? Unless I misunderstood at the time.

    Richard.
     
    paullad1984 and 26D_M like this.
  11. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    7,564
    Likes Received:
    4,499
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    The difficulty is knowing the precise agreement between David Smith and Clive Mojollier but since both parties are known to expect such details to remain confidential there seems little hope of knowing details hence being able to persuade either party to reconsider them - especially if it appears there is more restoration required than either party expected or accepted.

    The lesson to be learned is that ownership of a working locomotive in preservation requires a great deal of both money and expertise and current owners simply hold them in trust fo future generations. IIRC many of the Carnforth locomotive stud are owned by legal trusts specifically set up to protect their long term futures - which many owners rarely consider in the heat of the moment of ownership / possession.
     
  12. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,708
    Likes Received:
    3,032
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    A video compilation of some of her most recent memorable outings.
     
  13. Pendle Witch

    Pendle Witch New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    14

    I think its fairly common knowledge that the above quotes are probably true and since coming off the Mainline in 2012 (when her ticket expired) there was no immediate plans or accumulated funds to return and with no fairy godmother (or father), the society have lurched from one crisis to another. New blood that came into the society then, if they could obtain membership (a point made several times over the years in this very forum - not quite a closed shop but close to it) were not listened to and most have walked away, those that remain are not kept informed of developments. The society never issues any form of Statements now or at any time of its existence, will not talk to the Railway Press, so is it any wonder the rumours are rife? None are ever refuted or corrected. Volunteers have not been made welcome or listened to and have walked away, this situation even extends to Management positions, who again have not been listened to and have chosen to walk away, I believe 2 members of the Management committee have resigned since Oct 21. Many other long term supporters seem to be questioning their support for this society, as it does not move with the times.
    This is not a new situation, it has been going on for years, yet the same core people are still in charge. The Society and its Engine were once well respected within the Railway Preservation Fraternity, sadly there isn't many people now that have a good word to say about them and its probably a "self inflicted " situation. I was told that at a recent AGM only 4 members actually attended, the management committee outnumbered the audience, but with proxy votes solicited by the committee from the elderly but "loyal" membership prior to the meeting, nothing will ever change. As for the alleged list of repairs issued at Tyseley and at Butterley to keep the engine running on the main line, but never carried out there, with the engine moving on. I think you can probably add to that, a list from Crewe from them prior to engines sudden move to Tyseley at the end of 2010.
    I wish David Smith well in his aims and thank him for his efforts so far in keeping Lizzie running, lets hope that it all was not in vain due to politics within the Lizzie Society and we see her back in her rightful place back on the Mainline.
     
  14. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,039
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I won’t like this post but I will agree with it.
     
  15. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Librarian
    Location:
    Just up the road from 56E Sowerby Bridge
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    it's a very similar scenario in the vintage bus world... A few years back a farmer was approached very politely regarding a very historic vehicle he was using as a chicken coop in a field... A replacement vehicle was offered free of charge, but the farmer's response was extremely unfriendly to say the very least. needless to say, the bus is still sat in his field rotting into the ground, because it's his. Nothing will ever be done with it, he just doesn't want anyone else to have it.
    Same applies to 6201. Although 6201 is in good hands at Carnforth, it could quite easily have ended up in the wrong hands.
    We are only ever the keepers of these items - One day we will all die - Are we to scrap all that we own and have cared about for decades, just because we don't want anyone else having them? That kind of mentality is just wrong. Too many historic items are suffering through the mentality and egos of their custodians. It makes a complete nonsense of saving and restoring them in the first place.

    Richard.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2022
  16. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Librarian
    Location:
    Just up the road from 56E Sowerby Bridge
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Point taken and comment edited.

    Richard.
     
  17. Chris86

    Chris86 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    576
    Occupation:
    Safety, Technical and Offroad Driver Trainer
    Location:
    South Yorkshore
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Can't help but feel 6201 and her society need a relaunch of sorts to try and gee up interest in getting folk donating to her again.

    A clear plan, costed and laid out- and crucially.....much as I hate to say it, offer to paint her BR green for the first few years when she returns.

    I bet that would get people pledging to donate, as that's been one of the continual moans from a chunk of the enthusiast community.

    It might also show a reasonable effort is being made to refresh the organisation, and her image to keep her running for years to come.

    Chris
     
    lil Bear, Gav106, Haighie and 4 others like this.
  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,039
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Chris I’m quite happy to chuck a few quid towards Lizzie whether it’s Red, Blue, or works grey primer, I won’t do so though until things change at the top.
    It’s as simple as that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2022
    lil Bear, Gav106, Haighie and 9 others like this.
  19. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    12,322
    Likes Received:
    12,864
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Like me and I think most people you are not prepared to send money to an organisation that has no direction or ultimate aim.
    The success of the A1 Trust has been it had a mission, a single aim to to build an A1 Pacific, a business plan to achieve that aim and a publicity machine to tell the world about it. The secretive and autocratic nature of the 6201 owners will only raise suspicion which is death of any fundraising activity.
    A completely new professional management team with a vision is needed or the loco will be condemned to gather dust at Carnforth for the foreseeable future.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
    lil Bear, mgl, MellishR and 7 others like this.
  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    16,078
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I’m reading this thread and can’t help but feeling that, just as paint is completely secondary to getting a machine working in the first place, so sorting out the organisational culture is more important than running a promotion.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page