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6412/SDR

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Woody Forest, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. Woody Forest

    Woody Forest Member

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    Errrm.... Damn GPS packed up
    Another engine that "may" be moving home http://www.wsra.org.uk/news.htm Certainly makes good business sense but will long standing affection with such a popular loco see it remain on the WSR? Interesting.
     
  2. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    The problem is that even after finding money to overhaul it, its too small for the WSR and so will spend most of the time elsewhere. Unusually, this seems to be a win-win deal for everyone.

    Chris
     
  3. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    ................. and if 3803 is sold they'll probably have 300K left over after restoring 6412. Interestingly, that's about the asking price of a certain 45XX......
     
  4. Rumpole

    Rumpole Well-Known Member

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    In the other thread:-
    Absolutely. Throughout preservation (and indeed the 'real' world) we regularly see issues grow out of all proportion owing to poor management communication; this is an example to us all.
     
  5. Nick Gough

    Nick Gough Active Member

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    If 6412 is sold to the SDR it couldn't go to a more appropriate home &, as they say, it can return to the WSR for galas.

    Jumping the gun a bit, but it would be nice to see 6412 running with 4 autotrailers like in early DVR days & of course echoing some of the Plymouth autotrains.
     
  6. daveb

    daveb Active Member

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    I'm not sure that it is a win-win deal. The information published by the WSRA implies that the money earned in hire fees during the last ticket is insufficient to cover the overhaul that is now needed.

    If the loco could reliably earn enough in hire fees (both from the WSR and externally) to cover its overhauls, it would make sense to overhaul it and hire it out. If it can't, it makes commercial sense to sell it, and the SDR is, in my view, the ideal place for it to go to.

    But... 6412 has been at the WSR since the beginning, and holds a special place in the affections of the WSRA members. It's a difficult call, and I applaud the WSRA for deciding to open the discussion up to its members.
     
  7. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Well at least in this day and age whether she stays or goes 6412 can be sure of a good home which is the main point here.

    Must say im suprised the SDR have made an offer PRIOR to the 38 moving on.
     
  8. Nick Gough

    Nick Gough Active Member

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    Perhaps there is a part exchange involved? :-$
    Three careful owners, only 900,000 miles on the clock, nearly new tyres & exhaust.
     
  9. tobes3803

    tobes3803 Active Member

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    Was at the DVR at the begining before the wsr so its special to both libes I would imagine!
     
  10. 83A

    83A New Member

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    She was on the DVR from pretty well it's outset.
    Used to work the school trains to Churston in 1973.

    Regards
    Steve
     
  11. Scorpian04111986

    Scorpian04111986 Active Member

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    I have a picture of all 3 64xx's (6412, 6435 and 6430 I believe?) in the yard at Buckfastleigh in the very early days and was on of the first engines on the line (After 4555, 4561 for a brief period, 1369 and 1420 of course) in fact they were there by 5th April 1969, when the Dart Valley Railway was opened, and in fact ran the first train consisting of four autocoaches (2 on each end) carrying 300 passengers on the 11.15am. She actually arrived under her own steam from Exmouth Junction on 5th June 1966, Having already created herself some history on the DVR.
    She left there for the WSR and arrived there in the early hours of 25th March 1976 (Having travvelled from Newton Abbot under her own steam hauling a DVR coach, those were the days eh!). and actually she then got herself into the WSR history books by working three out of eaight of the trains on the frst day, one of these being the first one.
    So I believe she is unique as she is just as important to both lines for exactly the same reason.
    Unfortunately I can't find the above mentioned photo (Probably because I want it!!) but I have found a couple of others.
     
  12. Scorpian04111986

    Scorpian04111986 Active Member

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    Heres another Picture of interest!!
     
  13. Nottage_Halt

    Nottage_Halt New Member

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    Almost right, Scorpian. The first WSR passenger train was hauled by Bagnall 0-6-0ST "Victor". But, as you say, 6412 was there at the start, and hauled three trains on that day, including the WSRA (who own 6412) special train.

    In fact, the pannier travelled up from Devon on the Thursday immediately prior to the re-opening on Sunday 28th March 1976.

    Without the effort of a few people in the WSRA in those early years (including putting homes up as loan guarantees etc) there would have been no purchase of 6412, and the WSR would have had an even worse loco situation.

    I understand that some folks might support the superficially attractive business case for the sale of 6412, but I do think there's more than just "commerce" to this. If today's WSR does not respect and preserve it's own heritage, who will?

    Nick
     
  14. CityOfLeeds

    CityOfLeeds New Member

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    I understand the sentimental reasons for keeping the loco at the WSR, but surely it is part of the SDR's heritage too? Besides, hiring the loco out to other railways would mean the WSR connection is diluted anyway, as it wouldn't be present on the line much of the time.

    What options are there?

    The engine is too small for the bulk of WSR trains - like the pannier at the PDSR, it wouldn't see much use, which would mean there would be little point in restoring it to running order. So it would always languish at the back of the overhaul queue, the 'necessary' larger engines required for services always having priority.

    As the railway has said, the hire fees don't cover the costs of running it elsewhere. So the WSR won't be in a hurry to repair the engine for hire, because it loses money and brings no other benefit to the railway. Therefore it will still sit at the back of a long overhaul queue.

    Simple economics may force the railway to keep the engine as a static exhibit if they want to retain it on the WSR. However that seems drastic when a reasonable offer has been tabled, guaranteeing its working future, at an eminently suitable railway. I personally think that selling it to an appropriate railway such as the SDR, where it will be properly used and appreciated, is far more respectful of the engines heritage than hanging onto it for sentimental reasons. It's not like they're considering selling it for a static future (or even scrap!) just because the economics don't stack up for the railway.

    Can I just add, that like many others on here, I also think the approach to this issue by the WSR has been exemplary.
     
  15. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Don't think that 4561 was ever there in preservation days, are you thinking of 4588? Even that was a later arrival - from Barry.
     
  16. Stu in Torbay

    Stu in Torbay Part of the furniture

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    Thats a good pic. You don't get the view of Broadsands viaduct these days - too many trees grown up!
     
  17. tobes3803

    tobes3803 Active Member

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  18. Scorpian04111986

    Scorpian04111986 Active Member

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    I personally think a move to the SDR is a good move for 6412 as it seems a little surplus to requirements at the WSR, although it is rather unique I think by the fact that it is linked to both lines by the same historical information and therfore has the same setiments attached to both. Although it is obviously going to be very sentimental to the WSR, but as Victor (Who was potentially more important in sentimental value than 6412 was sold then maybe 6412 could be too, I do realise they are owned by seperate company's and was the first loco the WSRA owned but if it makes sense, it makes sense.

    Also Saggin Dragon 4561 was on the SDR during 1998/early 99 season as a hire loco, I actually thought it was earlier than that but obviously not.

    Also diverting from the original subject there were the following locos on the SDR by 1971 2 years after the first official train:
    1369, 2031, 1420, 1450, 1638, 4555, 4588, 6412, 6430, 6435 and 7827.

    If anyone is interested in a further list of visitors to the line with rough dates if I have them then ask and I'll post them in the SDR section I created.
     
  19. Swan Age

    Swan Age Active Member

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    Does anyone know the outcome of the WSRA Committee meeting held to discuss the potential sale of 6412 to the South Devon Railway?
     
  20. Premier Prairie

    Premier Prairie New Member

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    Probably still in progress when you posted, today may reveal the outcome but don't hold your breath.

    John
     

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