70017's accident at Carlisle 1966

On July 30th 1966 Britannia No 70017 'Arrow' was involved in a collision with the rear end of a goods train near Carlisle and was withdrawn as a result of the damage she suffered.

Does anyone have any photos of her after this incident or know a book in which there is one?

This is in the interests of historical research and I'm not one of those ghouls who wants to see pics of mangled locos just for the hell of it.... 8-[

 

Two photos of the accident are included in the recently published book 'Steam City Carlisle' by Irwell Press. Detailed caption includes what train she was on, what train she hit etc. One of the buffers that was torn off 'Arrow' laid for many years amongst the undergrowth at the point of impact so to speak. I purchased the said buffer from BR some years ago. Now being used as a back garden seat!

 

Hello,

I've also seen an image online, maybe try a Google, Fotopic, or Flickr search? .

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.

 

http://oversands.fotopic.net/c1548584_13.html
I came across a few photos on this website

 

There is a picture of 70017 in the RCTS' books: A Detailed History of the British Railways Standard Steam Locomotives - Volume 1 Background to Standardisation and the Pacific Classes on page 129. The picture is from the Evening News and Star, Carlisle, which I assume was a local newspaper.

 

News and Star still is the evening paper

 

Here are 2 photos of 70017 Arrow at Carlisle 4/8/66 by Tony Gillett
http://www.steamlocomotives.photos.gb.n ... 83542.html
http://www.steamlocomotives.photos.gb.n ... 83564.html

Neil

 

Seeing the pictures of the 'Brit here made me think of something I've been meaning to ask for a long time... When an accident such as this happened, and a loco fell on it's side, or on it's front (for example maybe running into a turntable pit), what is the effect on the boiler? From my limited knowledge of boilers, I was led to believe that anything that left either the firebox crown or sides not covered by water would cause at least damage, if not an explosion. In an accident, was it the policy to bale out the fire wherever possible? Or was the firebed usually so shaken up that it wouldn't cause damage? Or would such an incident immediately cause the fusible plugs to blow and put the fire out? Sorry for the random nature of the question!
Dan

 

Depends how much water there is in the boiler at the time. If a loco went on its side i think the water in the boiler will still cover the crown sheet and the sides of the firebox.

The fusible plug is like a warning system it lets you know if there isnt any water covering the crown sheet and the lead center will just melt and blow steam into the firebox. But it doesnt put out the fire.
Hope this helps

 

the boiler could move on its mountings and the stays may break

 

14xx Lover Wrote:

The fusible plug is like a warning system it lets you know if there isnt any water covering the crown sheet and the lead center will just melt and blow steam into the firebox. But it doesnt put out the fire.
Hope this helps[/quote]

I don't want to contradict you, as I'm not really a loco engineer or an expert on these things. But I've never heard of the fusible plug being a warning system before-whenever I've heard of fusible plugs being dropped, the fireman is usually fully aware of the low water in the boiler and doing everything he/she can to rectify it. Given that the action of the plug dropping will empty the boiler of steam and render the injectors useless, (as well as the rush of scalding steam preventing anybody getting close enough to the firebox doors to throw the fire out); how can this be seen as a warning?) Wouldn't the warning in itself prevent you doing anything about it? And I've never seen plugs drop, but surely wet steam would put a fire out?

Dan

 

No! The lead plug is simply the last warning. If you have a big fire in there, the volume of steam passing through that small orifice in the plug will make no difference at all, all it will do is provide a blow in the firebox which the crew should hear and take appropriate action, like get both feeds on and bale the fire out as quickly as possible. If you look in the box, you won't even see the steam coming through, contrary to popular misconception steam is invisible, only vapour can be seen; and with the temperature inside a firebox it will certainly be steam. The fireman might not realise, for one of many reasons, e.g. the top cock on the gauge not fully open, that the water level is below the top of the crown sheet. This was the cause of several accidents with the American S160s and LMS 6224 at Carstairs. The plug's blowing thus becomes the first warning.

 

As was said, and has been echoed by LMS2968 and rseveral times previously on this Forum, a fusible plug is simply a warning that the firebox crown is becoming overheated. It is a total myth that it will put the fire out or even dampen it down. As for letting all the steam out, I doubt that one or two 5/8" dia holes would have much effect at all; that's less than would be going up the blower.
Ther dilemma for me is what do you do? The textbook answer is put on both injectors and throw out the fire. However, if the plugs have gone and you have a seriouisly low water level with a hot fire, the crown is likely to be getting overheated quite quickly and the almost inevitable consequence of this is going to be a collapsed crown sheet. So, do you stick to the text book and risk being severely scalded/killed or get off the footplate as quickly as possible and leave the worst to happen?

 

I would assume that there would be damage also as assuming that the fire remained in the box, its bed would be transferred from the grate to the firebox side if the locomotive over turned?