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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    You need to go back and read through the updates on this thread. Particularly the ones provided by @Flying Phil
     
  2. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Cheers. i will go back and answer my own questions. Actually more original present than i realised, and more work done than i expected, though most of it still cleaning and painting, apologies to those involved in that work.

    I now Hope a funded consortium can somehow rescue the frames and some arrangement on boilers be made...

    My question is that if the work had stopped and the work done was left to gather cobwebs for another 10 years, would there be as much upset about someone putting the boiler to good use then ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
  3. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    Based on the 7027 FB page which was regularly updated by the restoration team before all this kicked off:

    7/2/20 - sorting out parts. Original connecting rods located.
    8/2/20 - arrival at GCR.
    15/2/20 - chimney fitted
    19/2/20 - boiler water gauge frame pedestal and loco brake valve purchased (the latter a new casting)
    5/3/20 - cabside number plates painted
    6/3/20 - bogie bolsters painted
    12/3/20 - bogie centre bits and 3 tender axleboxes painted
    13/3/20 - missing parts list: mainly gauges and safety valve bonnet
    23/3/20 - boiler lift
    11/6/20 - post-lockdown, bracket and shield with elbows for whistles made (photo includes whistles)
    16/6/20 - frames lifted off wheels
    17/7/20 - new safety valve casting
    31/7/20 - loco buffers overhauled and fitted
    13/8/20 - parts arrived (sorry I've no idea what these are)
    9/9/20 - wheels cleaned and painted in red oxide
    9/9/20 - strip down of tender frames to reveal cracking [from later updates I gather the tender frames were expected to be replaced]
    22/9/20 - smokebox number plate cast
    28/10/20 - new tender bearings being machined
    20/10/20 - loco frames needle gunned and painted
    24/2/21 - post-lockdown, new nameplates made
    26/4/21 - wheelset painting continues
    4/5/21 - first wheel in black gloss
    10/5/21 - more wheels in black gloss
    11/5/21 - loco frames needle gunned and painted (continued)
    19/5/21 - last set of driving wheels being degreased, and primer on the bogie (which appears to be a fairly complete assembly)
    1/7/21, 14/7/21, 6/8/21, 27/8/21, 19/10/21, 22/10/21, 12/11/21, 19/11/21 - more work on wheelsets and frames, by the end of which significant parts of the frames were in gloss and the last driving wheel in primer
    9/12/21 - a truckload of parts collected, with more to follow
    6/1/22 - safety valve machined
    24/1/22 - more paint on frames and driving wheels. Work started on new dragbox.
    11/2/22 - last two driving wheels in undercoat
    11/3/22 - last two driving wheels in gloss. More needle gunning and priming on frames
    6/7/22 - tender wheelsets arrived, with brand new tyres fitted

    ...and then it all went horribly wrong.

    It would be a travesty if all of this work was wasted*. Looking through the photos accompanying the above, the impression I get is of a kit of parts making good progress and not all that far off the rolling chassis stage.

    [*I don't buy the Didcot argument that the work is not wasted because all the bits will sit in a dark corner until eventually recycled into something else. That isn't why the current team did the work, and from their perspective their effort is wasted.]
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
  4. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the 4709 group could keep the boiler which seems to be the only bit they really want and sell the rest to the GCR so they can carry on but under GCR ownership. New Boiler not easy, but not impossible.
     
  5. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    Don't downplay the significance of the cleaning and painting. It's a massive undertaking, time consuming to get right, and probably the thing most people will comment on afterwards. Not everyone can be an ace machinist, and using the ace machinists for cleaning and painting wouldn't be a good use of labour either. It would also appear that a good proportion of that effort was by volunteers.

    Besides, from the FB list (see my post above), I see a good proportion of each going on.
     
  6. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    How can the GWS/Didcot and the 4709 group look at that list of work done on a locomotive being restored, and decide that splitting the boiler from the part-restored locomotive is acceptable?

    So much work specific to Thornbury done there. It's outrageous. I feel for the volunteers and paid staff who've worked on it at the GCR.
     
  7. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    If they could be persuaded to re-sell anything, it would make more sense to sell the lot (i.e. as a viable project hence easier to sell and worth more) and put the funds into a new boiler of the correct type.
    Sadly that seems to assume that they are interested in doing anything (a) sensible or (b) properly. The linked article above doesn't inspire much confidence in either.
     
    Gareth, Swan Age, NBDR Lock and 7 others like this.
  8. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    For those people wondering exactly what the state of Thornbury's frames are now .....
    DSC02026.JPG DSC02027.JPG
     
  9. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Look well enough. Presumably some assessment on their general condition of the frames wheels etc was already done at some point in the past.
     
  10. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, just getting them out of there and craned onto a lorry for onward transport to the Didcot recycling point is going to cost several thousand!

    I've no idea what the GCR position is on this (they seem to be maintaining a dignified silence) but I hope they are charging the 4709 project a stupid amount in storage charges. Focus the minds.
     
  11. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    I recently read the piece written in latest Heritage Railway Magazine and Trackside Magazine and was disappointed that no mention was made on the work that has been carried out at Loughborough, seemingly wanting to make 7027 out to be a forlorn engine in scrapyard condition. Shame.

    The main message for me here is that the timeline for producing a 47xx (or Star) will be far longer than that which was in play for returning 7027 and thus the interest from me has been lost in lieu of things that are more likely to come to fruition in my life time.
     
  12. GWRman

    GWRman New Member

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    There are some rather interesting comments from the GWS CEO Clive Hetherington on FaceAche. Make of them what you will:

    "It was openly for sale and the 4709 group were the only interested party. The private seller wanted a quick sale for personal reasons"

    "The owner wanted to sell the loco to the 4079 group. The previous owner wants to set up a fund to buy it as I understand it. That is not saying "I will buy it". We have plenty of Castles - few of them able to steam through lack of funds - do we need another?"
     
    misspentyouth62 likes this.
  13. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    He's also suggested that the 4709 project is pretty well funded to completion now
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2022
  14. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    So why would they also need a disassembled set of parts for another large 4-6-0, if their own existing fleet is not able to steam through lack of funds?
    I just hope someone can come along with enough money to purchase 7027, and give the 4709 lot enough money to buy a brand new boiler of the correct pattern.
    It would save an already existing locomotive which could have a bright future, and may even give the 4709 lot a slight amount of credibility back for doing the right thing and actually recreating a 4700 using the correct pattern components, instead of it being a lookie-likie like the Hawksworth County.

    Richard.
     
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  15. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    If the 4709 group is funded to completion (!) then why are they not just putting that funding towards a brand new boiler?

    Makes no sense!
     
    Gareth, Spinner, Swan Age and 10 others like this.
  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Which raises the question - where? The GWS accounts show £50k in a restricted fund for 4709 as at 31/01/2021, so either they have had a spectacular 18 months for income in 2021 / first half of 2022(*); or there is another entity holding funds for the loco.

    (*) That is a possibility, of course. But for the five years of accounts 2016 - 2021, 4709 has had an income on the GWS accounts of an average of about £20k per year. It is possible that in the last 18 months there has been a bequest, but it would have to be a considerable 6-7 figure bequest with a substantial portion going to 4709 for the loco to be considered "funded to completion".

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
  17. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    No idea, I cannot remember what he specifically said on Facebook in response to a query re funding for 4709, I will try and find it if I can but will be tricky via phone rather than laptop. All I can assume is that someone has bunged a load of cash at them, or I suppose they have taken out a loan to cover the opportunity to buy 7027?

    Edit - that was much easier than I expected, in response to a query from someone as to whether the 4709 project was fully funded he replied...

    'It has 500 generous supporters at the moment and a good income - so in heritage railway terms 'yes''
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2022
  18. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Someone was asking for pledges via Change.org- so I pledges my few quid. Later, having pledged an argument-with-my-wife-if-she-finds-out amount, I thought I'd drop them an email, just asking who they actually were. Never got a reply, which was disappointing. Could have been the 4709 group for all I know.

    Maybe the GWS has 'plenty' of Castles that they don't seem to care about except the shiny new one. The world at large? Not so much.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
  19. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    With all the finger pointing that is going on, we seem to have forgotten that it was the owner who decided to sell to 4709 group (and presumably had some knowledge of their intentions). It wasn't a compulsory purchase.
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    .... and that's actually pretty much back to where we came in. :Banhappy:
     
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