840xx tanks to replace O2s in the Isle of Wight?

...........

 

There is a little more information on the Isle of Wight Railway website, see the third paragraph on the following page:

http://www.iwsteamrailway.co.uk/pages/latest news/Ivatt 41313 arrives Aug 06.htm

Let's hope that they have all the drawings they need!

 

Their website also has a new "Strategic Vision" document. http://www.iwsteamrailway.co.uk/pages/latest news/ForwardPlan.FinalDraft.6-6-09.pdf
which is dated 6 June 2009, the day after tomorrow.

 

If I remember reading correctly, one of the locos actually made it to Eastleigh, but no work was carried out on it...

 

Bristolian is right, one engine did make it to eastleigh, and plans were to cut it down to fit the IOW loading gauge but the plan to electrify was decided upon to before work commenced , also at the same time plans were laid out for a possible electric loco with luggage capability to work with the existing IOW stock once this plan was dropped the drawings were adopted to replace the luggage area with a diesel unit powering the electric motors , this became the class 73 electro diesel

 

Wasn't the reason the plan to use 84000s fell through something to do with they would still have needed to lower the track in Ryde tunnel even if the locos had been cut down? The extra costs killed off the scheme and it became cheaper to electrify with 40+ year old LT tube stock.

 

wasnt the original plan to just electrify ryde pier head to st Johns and close the rest of the line, the plan to use steam envisaged just a short reprieve and then total closure with in a 10 year program with buses being allowed onto the pier to connect with the boats , and wasnt it because london underground offered to increase the availibility of stock in better conditionthat the full electrification was done, oh and the fact that the buses would not cope with the summer saturday needs

 

I dont think there'd have been any issues with the tunnel - as far as im aware the main problem was that there was nothing suitable to replace the pre-grouping carriages even with if new loco's were brought over.

Chris

 

A few years ago, I spent a pleasant evening in a pub with some chaps that knew the IoW system quite well. "What if BR had left steam running on the Island?" we asked ourselves, in the same way they left the Vale Of Rheidol (I hope I've got the name right). We imagined that the lines to Ventnor and Newport/Cowes remained, with the 4 new 2MTs to work the low season service and a handful of O2s surviving to help with a more intensive summer service. If only...

 

I lived in Woking in the 60's and took this photo of the tube stock heading for Eastleigh prior to being shipped to the IoW.

http://nick301.photos.us.com/p56734399.html

It is taken from my bedroom window which was ideally positioned, except when the up milk train came through around 3 am.

 

nickt- i grew up in woking, the picture of 35022 might be woking, in the yard just before the pompey line left the main was a short loading platform with a canopy it looks very simular, i remember seing a 4 cor being set light to several years later as an exercise in the same location , unfortunatly i missed most of the steam days, but did see the IOW electrics being worked under their own power through woking in blue livery it was really a strange site

 

I also think it is interesting that the IoWSR have "imported" a pair of Ivatt 2-6-2T from Quainton Road. These engines where the basis of the 84XXX locos.

 

I have been reading about these proposals in the RCTS book "B. R. Standard Steam Locomotives Vol 3.
The initial plan to move 3 Std 2 2-6-2 Tanks to the I. O. W. was put forward in 1960. 3 S.R. allocated locos were to be used. 84022 was sent to Eastleigh Works in July 1960 to have the following modifications carried out: -
Fitting a new chimney 6 1/2" shorter than the original.
Reducing the height of the dome casing by 2 1/16"
Lowering the cab roof by 1"
Removing the cabside windscreens.
This work was never carried out and the loco was sent back to its depot.
In 1965 the proposal was brought up again, this time using 84010/84013-17/19/25/26/28. 84010/15/16/28 were sent to Lostock Hall in November 1965. 84015 and 84028 were sent there from Skipton and 84010 and 84016 from Fleetwood. They never got to the Southern Region. However 84014 did make it to Eastleigh, eventually, in December 1965 and was promptly withdrawn.

 

are the loading gauge on IOW lines the same as the loading gauge of the hastings line? the reason i ask this is because the class 73s were originally designed to fit the IOW loading gauge or is the restriction even greater

 

Good question but while the 73's may have originally started off as an idea for the IoW, i doubt the final body shape has anything in common with that original design. Besides, the island was quite a bit more restricted - not just on height and width of rolling stock but also the length. For example, the larger steam loco's passed for the Hastings line had narrower cabs, often achieved by angled cabsides to reduce the width at roof level, but such mods would not have made them suitable for the island; i think this also applies to the 840xx tanks which had narrower (hastings gauge?) cabs but still required height mods for the Island.

Chris

 

if discounting the issue of ryde tunnel am i right in asuming that the ivatts dont need cut down cabs to run to st johns ? are there any tight bridges causing clearance issues between havenstreet and st johns ?

 

There are no clearance issues between Havenstreet and Smallbrook Junction - 41313 has already been along the whole line! As I understand it the tightest bridge is just out of Havenstreet in the down (Wootton) direction.

(Check the Latest News on the Website for 'First Ivatt to Smallbrook')

Alas I do not know of the line between Smallbrook - Ryde St. Johns. I'll ask when I am at the railway later on this week.

 

A pal of mine has just told me that the locos he recorded outside Lostock Hall goods shed were 84010, 84016, 84015 and 84028, in that order. I certainly have a picture of my own confirming that the first 2 in the line were 84010 and 84016.

The engines had been sent to Lostock Hall as surplus to requirements – with the ending of the Fleetwood to Blackpool North via Poulton Curve push & pull service Fleetwood shed had little further use for 84010/16 and, likewise, with the ending of the Earby-Barnoldswick auto train, Skipton shed was in a similar position with 84015/28.

In the April 1966 issue of the Railway Magazine, my friend recalls that the late John Clarke had a shot 84025 at Stockport shed with a small note regarding its transfer to the SR. I am well aware that that did not occur, but I also read in the Railway Observer that 84014 got as far as Eastleigh, in Dec 1965, only to be then condemned.

These particular locos at Lostock Hall were never steamed at the shed and did ultimately soon end up in the Central Wagon Co scrapyard at Ince near Wigan. Indeed, in the same magazine, June 1966 pages 316-319, there was an article (also by John Clarke) about scrapping locos and carriages at Central Wagon, with an excellent shot of his of 84028 actually being cut up. (Many other engines met a similar fate here and I, myself, possess a picture of 46243 “City of Lancaster” in the yard and about to go the same way.)

My pal also told me that he had heard that the numberplates were in the toolboxes, or something like that, and that an enterprising member of 10D staff had soon procured at least one for his collection. That much, I can quite believe, as I once discovered the numberplates from 70002, 47293 and 42956 under an old coach body adjacent to the diesel fuelling tank and where they had been hidden away, for later collection, by one of the more unscrupulous members of the fitting dept!

That, I think, draws a line under the history of a very interesting proposal. Let’s but hope that today’s reincarnation on the IOW does achieve more success in such aims!

 

Further to my previous comments about the Lostock Hall 840xx locomotives going for scrap at the Central Wagon Co at Wigan, I have since been able to confirm that very fact by digging out a list of all 305 ex-BR steam locos actually cut-up at Wigan. All 4 engines from Lostock Hall are included.

I have to say that that list makes amazing reading in its own right and, rather than introduce a new thread on the topic to share this knowledge, I have taken the opportunity to tag the details onto the end of this thread - which, I feel, has now fully run its course.

With steam disappearing so rapidly before our eyes in the 1960s, it soon became quite difficult to keep track of where engines came to be disposed of. I was always aware that some scrapping was taking place at Ince (next to the old-GCR line into Central Station), but I never really realised the enormity of that operation until the day that I passed by, with a camera in my hand, on a freight train and spotted 46243 and a couple of 5Xs! That so many ex-Western and Eastern Region engines also came to arrive there - right slap bang in the middle of Lancashire - is quite incredible, particularly to those of us who were otherwise occupied in those days in frantically chasing after what little was still at work on our own doorstep and having little enough time as it was to take notice of such matters!

Western Region
3208 3723 3829
4950/76
5015
5744/61/8/89/93 7753/7762 8715/27/50/84/8/97 9753
9014

London Midland Region
40003/4/7/15/17/18/21/52/5/6/9/61/8/84/91/103/27/34/41/3/63/6/74/92/4/9/208 40586/628/56/74/84 41158 41205 41903/4 42077/135/153/5/256/280 42309/69/78/9/86 42423/4/8/71/5/9/81 42558/60/65/69/70/72/84/9/607/30/1/5/7/40/696 42707/8/9/34/51/7/61/72/6/8/88/817/20/6/40/2/51/5/8/88/92/901/4/23/32/37/41/3 42951/2/42956 43031 43211/271/339/87/8/98/436/502/38/58/80/619/23/30/60/74/711/53 43890/910/25/61/76/84/4000/7/14/7/9/186/221/5/39/40/80/91/3/361/6/419/38/64/71/9/511/49 45108/313/414
45522
45583/92/601/23/57/81/710
46129
46243
47228/57/91/301/23/50/2/61/75/87/416/40/61/70/7/514/28/37/49/59/75/84-6/639/71 49509/11/82/92/618/40/62/7/8
50712
51316/404/8/13/15/23/57/8/97/512/46
52183/248/69/71/431/43
58293

Eastern/North Eastern Region
61041/4/52/4/6/66/96/144/9/52/71/82/251/4/80/6/363
61817/80/6/90/915/42/54/63
63923/30/3/48/61/6/71

BR Standard
77011
78002
80050
84010/15/16/28
90109/40/7/57/73/216/9/245/57/359/74/5/88/416/25/95/508/26/52/55/9/66/74/92/5/9/608/67/712/24

Total: 305