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A Derelict Locomotive boiler?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by ragl, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    Saw this on the Adit Now website:

    http://www.aditnow.co.uk/supersize/Scwyd-Level-Coal-Mine-User-Album-Image-94766/

    Looks very much like a former loco boiler, probably used in stationary mode at the adjacent drift mine at the head of the valley near Treherbert. The waterfall behind is probably the Blaenrhondda Waterfall. Any takers for a positive identification?

    Before anybody dives in with a suggestion for it's metamorphosis into a replica, this is not a pitch for any kind of rebuilding exercise of a "lost" class of loco.

    Cheers

    Alan
     
    ragl, Jun 2, 2014
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  2. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    david1984, Jun 2, 2014
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  3. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    I can't open the link, but I am guessing that a photo of this boiler appeared in Steam Railway many years ago and it was determined to be an industrial rather than a loco boiler?
     
    Martin Perry, Jun 2, 2014
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  4. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    Hi Martin,

    Not sure that about the Steam Railway connection, as I never read that particular magazine, however, the attached photo may jog your memory:

    Scwyd-Level-Coal-Mine-User-Album-94766 (2).jpg

    It is gratifying to see the survival of such artifacts long after they were abandoned. This boiler may have survived as it seems to be in a "Did" safe environment.

    Cheers

    Alan
     
    ragl, Jun 2, 2014
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  5. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    I think it is the same one; I seem to remember that it had no provision for a regulator on the backhead, as would have been usual with a boiler of this type, which was the basis of the argument that it was an industrial stationary boiler.
     
    Martin Perry, Jun 2, 2014
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  6. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    traction engine boiler?
     
    Reading General, Jun 2, 2014
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  7. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Some traction engine! A dome right where the motion would be and no evidence of there ever having been cylinders mounted in front of the dome either.
     
    61624, Jun 2, 2014
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  8. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Well-Known Member

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    It looks like a locomotive type boiler, which I do not believe were widespread in industrial use. Various other types of boilers can be made much more simply than a locomotive type which requires complicated (and therefore expensive) staying to hold the firebox in place. Could it have been converted at some stage, with the regulator opening patched up?

    Were the safety valve on top of the dome?
     
    andrewtoplis, Jun 2, 2014
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  9. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

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    A bit of googling throws up some more pictures, there is one from the 80s that appears to show a smoke box of sorts attached to it. (I would post a link but no idea how on an iPad)


    Apparently it's a scheduled monument too........


    Chris
     
    Chris86, Jun 3, 2014
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  10. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Hold your finger on the address bar at the top of the page until the option to select all/copy comes up, then do likewise wherever you wish to paste it until the paste option appears.
     
    Martin Perry, Jun 3, 2014
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  11. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    No need to be offensive, we can't all be traction engine experts like you
     
    Reading General, Jun 3, 2014
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  12. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad Member

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    A "Portable" rather than a traction / road locomotive was my initial thought, but that boiler looks like it had more railway in the design, imo.
    But used in a steam supply mode.

    In 1878 "Bellerophon" and "Makerfield" were sent to Wood Pit Colliery, after the disaster there resulted in damage to the boiler house, they raised steam for the winding engine for the remaining shaft until the repaired boiler house was operational.
     
    StoneRoad, Jun 3, 2014
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  13. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

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    Besides the size of it, there are no hornplates which would either rule out a traction engine/road steam original, or mean it was rather early pre-dating the introduction of hornplates. In their absence there's no sign of alternative arrangements to fasten either wheels or motion to the boiler.

    I'm not convinced it could be a portable either - whilst they don't have hornplates, there are no signs of holes in the wrapper either for the cylinder or the pedestal bearings for the crank to be mounted on the top as portables have either.

    I suppose it originaly could have been a semi-portable (<clicky link for example drawing>) as those don't have anything mounted directly to the boiler - it all sits underneath on a separate base.
     
    I. Cooper, Jun 3, 2014
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  14. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I don't think portables would have had that big steam dome any more tan traction engines would, unless it was purely a boiler.
     
    61624, Jun 3, 2014
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  15. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Very interesting. Lap joints on the barrel and half sides to the wrapper so likely to be of a good age (late 129th/early 20th C). It also appears to have an inset front tubeplate, but I could be mistaken. It also looks to have copper stays so probably a copper box but, again, I could be way off the mark.
     
    Steve, Jun 3, 2014
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  16. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Well-Known Member

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    Its funny, there are no 'openings' on this boiler at all, no obvious backhead fittings, no injector feed arrangments, no obvious safety valves, no steam manifold/turret.....it is oddly bare! Nothing running along the firebox to take the weight where it sits in the frames (sorry, I do not know the technical term!) either.
     
    andrewtoplis, Jun 4, 2014
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  17. Sparky

    Sparky New Member

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    At our steam museum we use a Marshall portable boiler for the steam supply. The mountings for the front wheels are at the front of the boiler barrel and for the rear on bosses each side of the firebox. There do not appear to be anything similar on this one.
    I wonder if it was supplied as-is without any mountings for building-in rather than free standing?
     
    Sparky, Jun 4, 2014
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  18. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

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    ...hence my suggestion of possibly being from a semi-portable engine:

    [​IMG]
     
    I. Cooper, Jun 4, 2014
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  19. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    Agreed about a possible semi portable but it may also be an undertype stationary engine. I have seen images of loco type boilers built on brick bases with cylinders below the smokebox. Almost looking like a grounded LMS 3F. These were at one time quite common in the engine houses of large factories.
     
    ilvaporista, Jun 5, 2014
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