Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by big.stu, Nov 3, 2014.
Apologies if any inconvenience caused.
In this respect is the multiple valve regulator necessary ? an improvement ?
Has Jeremy passed ? I thought he was still with us
Thanks Lee . That is a shame
Probably, especially at low openings . I just remember it was quite a pull on the lever to get the regulator open wide and winding the reverser back made things easier, as on other locos. It would be interesting to hear from others who have experience of them. Which locos have them these days? The 60532, Britannias(?), and 71000? Not sure about 60163. Any more?
Another factor in the notorious slip was that the fireman's side regulator handle had been removed for supposedly safety reasons. It would have been much easier to shut the regulator if it had been present.
I never knew that. That's certainly very "interesting".
60009 has had its fireman's side regulator handle removed as well, allegedly due to a couple of support crew hitting their heads on it in the past.
Call me ignorant but was this common practice (a regulator on the fireman’s side)
I could understand on something like a shunting engine but on an express passenger engine?
Or is it just an LNER thing?
Not that unusual. We are only talking about the regulator handle. All the other driver's controls are on his side. If you have a stiff regulator it can be handy if the fireman can assist in opening or closing it.
Here is the arrangement on the Southern U Class, 31806, as a typical example
It was an LNER thing with their pull out regulators. I believe the original Bulleid Pacifics had the same arrangement (Bulleid was an ex LNER man).
Some other railways had a regulator with a sort of double handle as in Peter’s picture.
I understand that when new out of the works the Gresley regulator could be very stiff in the gland. When new the A4 ‘Dominions’ were named at Kings Cross by the High Commissioner who was then invited to drive the loco to the end of the platform. I think it was Dominion of Canada where the HC tugged at the regulator and only moved it a fraction, Gresley urged him to pull it harder and he did, fully open on the big valve with the inevitable result. The fireman quickly dived for the handle his side and snapped it shut.
“Birch Grove’s” regulator is not dissimilar - double-ended at least. That’s a Marsh boiler, and Marsh was ex-GNR: I wonder if he bought certain design ideas with him? Certainly the fire hole door on Birch Grove is very similar to an LNER “oven door” type.
As @Steve says, notching up in order to free up a regulator to move from first to big valve is not uncommon: you have to do it on our Chatham engines. You can be going along at about 35% full first valve, but if you want more you have to pull the loco up to about 15%; nudge the regulator until second valve is cracked open, then let it back out to 35% or whatever, then open second valve as required. It's not an instantaneous process, instead a co-ordinated sequence of moves.
And then you have the issue of closing it again! Not uncommon on some engines that to close the regulator from second valve, or move back to first valve, you first have to sharply open the regulator wide open, then slam it shut, then (if required) open it again to first valve. If you just try to shut it directly from part-open second valve, you can sometimes contrive to shut one valve but leave the other still open, so the regulator looks shut but is actually still open …
Thanks Gents, I have a vague memory of I think it’s 47383 having a similar arrangement to the photo you’ve posted Peter, which for a shunting engine would make some sort of sense.
For some reason now I have a recollection of the Ivatt 4’s originally having a regulator on the the Fireman’s side, which would make some sense regarding @Johnb’s post regarding who Mr Ivatt senior worked for.
As ever every days a school day on here, thanks again chaps.
Alas, Matt, a double handled regulator is not much help with shunting unless you have a brake valve on the fireman's side as well. We had to wait for the advent of the diesel shunter for this to become a reality.
Tom has aptly described the fun and games you have with a conventional main and pilot valve regulator. Doing that is fairly easy with a screw reverser and even a lever reverse as long as you have piston valves. However, it can be even more fun with a lever reverse and slide valves where, if you try notching up with the regulator open you need to be pretty strong to do so as the steam pressure acting on the slide valve will tend to hold it stationary on the face and throw the movement back to the reverser lever. Thus it is normal practice to shut the regulator before notching up. You then have the chicken and egg situation of what to do if wanting to open the big valve. That’s when the regulator handle extension on the fireman’s side is a big help. Before piston valves became the norm there were several designs of balanced slide valves for this and other reasons.
To be precise it was described as a “double seated” regulator, I recollect, on the LNER. The LNER briefly toyed with replacing this with a single seat GCR pull out regulator but this was reversed quite quickly after an incident with the rebuilt Grest Northern.
Not one of Thompsons finer design decisions, it must be said, when the double seated one was so prevalent.
I remember waiting at Shap Summit for 46115 with Gordon Hodgson driving and when it went into a violent slip I thought god no not another Blue Peter but Gordon controlled it brilliantly. LMS locos are obviously different to LNER mind control wise . Not sure what Gordon actually did that day but the drain cocks are opened before it is controlled.
From memory wasn’t it Gordon Hodgson and the late Paul Kane who were in charge of 60532 with the ‘Ayr Raider’ tour? I’m sure they were responsible for several memorable runs with Blue Peter in the late ‘90s early 2000’s
Not sure Matt to be honest but you’re probably right. Had a chat with Gordon the night before he took 6233 over Shap from Crewe on the Citadel tour and he did say Blue Peter was one of his favourite locos he had driven.
Paul Kane and Gordon Hodgson joint fired 60532's best effort at the Blue Riband with Willie Alexander driving. 21st March 1992.
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