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A4 60012 "Commonwealth of Australia" puzzle.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Eightpot, Dec 16, 2019.

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  1. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I've found a photo of this loco taken in 1963 showing a hole in the lower part of the front panel between the left and middle lamp irons. The hole is about 3" diameter with smaller ones above and below it giving the impression that something like a flange had been fitted. This hole does not appear on 1958 photos, so why and for what purpose was it made? It appears to be the only A4 so modified as far as I'm aware.
     
    Eightpot, Dec 16, 2019
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  2. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    As it is post 1958, may I suggest that it could be something to do with ATC gear.
     
    std tank, Dec 16, 2019
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  3. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I see what you mean!
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3d/ec/aa/3decaa1c647e493b0cc3c2356b380e38.jpg

    Rather odd and has also piqued my interest!
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
    60017, Dec 16, 2019
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  4. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    It's the F-duct for big end cooling. An idea later stolen by F1 teams...
     
    ilvaporista, Dec 16, 2019
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  5. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    Piqued mine to......

    Cheerz,

    Alan
     
    ragl, Dec 16, 2019
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  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    It's where you put the key ...

    Tom
     
    Jamessquared, Dec 16, 2019
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  7. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    The picture is taken at North Queensferry and the shed code appears to be 61B, Aberdeen Ferryhill which would date the picture between January and August 1964 when it was withdrawn. Was this it’s last trip to the scrapyard?
    Zooming in the hole doesn’t appear to be completely circular and the image seems to be from a scanned slide. Is it just a spot on the original slide that hasn’t been cleaned up? There are quite often small black dust spots on my own slides no matter how carefully I clean them before scanning
     
    Johnb, Dec 16, 2019
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  8. 68923

    68923 Member

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    I would tend to agree with the slide spot suggestion, (unless a relative of Robert Louis Stevenson had been at work administering the "black spot" of Treasure Island fame?
     
    68923, Dec 16, 2019
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  9. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    From the different photo I have seen it is definitely a hole.
     
    Eightpot, Dec 16, 2019
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  10. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    [​IMG]

    Also visible here, in full Haymarket finery.
     
    5944, Dec 16, 2019
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  11. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Where about on an A4 is the hole that the winder goes in to open the front end I can remember on Gresley having to wind open the front end before undoing the smokebox door
     
    martin1656, Dec 16, 2019
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  12. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I think it was above the front bogie wheel, in front of the cylinders.
     
    46223, Dec 16, 2019
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  13. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Surely it's the hole for the charging cable - 3mm jack or mini-USB?
     
    flying scotsman123, Dec 16, 2019
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  14. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Was it ever used on the Royal Train? Class 40's used on the Royal train had a 3 inch hole used for a phone link between the loco and train 40012 has this rather noticeable feature on its ends as did several 40's
     
    Matt37401, Dec 16, 2019
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  15. 60044

    60044 Member

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    But is it is likely that it hauled the Royal Train tender first?
     
    60044, Dec 16, 2019
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  16. 45581

    45581 Part of the furniture

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    Can confirm it had the hole on 13th July 1963 when I photographed her heading north through Bingley on a relief TCE. Acting on a hunch I traveled to Skipton the following day to see if it returned from Scotland, probably Glasgow, on a southbound relief. It duly turned up in deplorable condition and we traveled to Leeds on it. On arrival I photographed it carrying ECS headcode, so must have taken the stock up to Neville Hill. By 5th October 1963 she had been bulled up considerably and we travelled from Aberdeen to Perth behind her.

    My very first picture of her was at Doncaster on 3rd September 1958 when she failed on the up Elizabethan and was replaced by Doncaster standby V2 60817. No hole visible in 1958.

    Notice the non standard whistle carried by 60012.
     
    45581, Dec 16, 2019
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  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I wouldn't have thought so either, when was it there were 3 Royal trains to York for a wedding in the late 50's early 60's (it's late and I can't be bothered to search the net at the mo)
     
    Matt37401, Dec 16, 2019
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  18. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Question :

    Answer :

    60007-02b.jpg
     
    Fred Kerr, Dec 17, 2019
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  19. daveb

    daveb Member

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    June 1961? Wedding of the Duke and Duchess of Kent.
     
    daveb, Dec 17, 2019
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  20. peckett

    peckett Member

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    peckett, Dec 17, 2019
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