A4 60027 Merlin's Boiler question

Hi all

I have added a photo taken by Tony Gillett at Preston in July 1966 of the boiler from A4 60027 Merlin in the consist of a freight service, does anyone have any idea what this was about, something to do with 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley's overhaul at Crewe in 1966 perhaps?
http://www.steamlocomotives.photos.gb.n ... 72720.html

Also added is a B/W night photo of 60004 William Whitelaw taken at Carlisle Station on the 25th September 1961 at 21:15 pm
http://www.steamlocomotives.photos.gb.n ... 72719.html

Neil

 

What makes you think that boiler was from 60027?

60007 has the boiler it was fitted with in October 1962. So no change took place at Crewe. The other possibilities are that it was fitted to 60010, but I've seen it recorded somewhere that 60010 kept the same boiler it was fitted with in December 1962.

60027's last boiler was number 29336. So if someone can find it somewhere, then you have the solution. Perhaps the A4 boiler used on Scotsman? - which is now at Crewe. Is anyone able to check the number of it? If they can, I could probably tell you where it came from.

 

What makes you think that boiler was from 60027?

Tony Gillett worked on the railway, so i would presume he would know what was in the consist of this freight

Neil

 

Tony Gillet worked on the railway, so i would presume he had knowledge of the move

Neil

 

According to info gleaned from the 'Net (and therefore possibly not correct) 60027 was went for scrap in Jan 1965 to G H Campbell at Shieldhall. I find it hard to believe that its boiler would have still been extant in July 1966. A scrappie would be unlikely to be able to lift a complete boiler from the frames. Such big cranes weren't generally around in the 1960's. If the boiler was removed by BR before it went for scrap, it begs the question as to why and where it sat around for 18 months?
The boiler of Salmon Trout, on the other hand, was removed at Cowlairs sometime between its withdrawal in Nov 1965 and the frames going for scrap in Oct 1966. If thedate of the photo is correct, my King Size Mars Bar is bet on it being that boiler. Where did it initially go for storage?

 

I don't think the scrapping date is correct. I photographed a complete 60027 on St Margarets shed on 3rd October 1965. Still had one of the nameplates on as well.

 

Scotsmans spare boiler was kept outside of Carr Loco @ Doncaster for a fair while. I saw it there in the Spring/summer of '67.

 

I should have looked at the info (on the British Steam database - http://www.britishsteam.com/ )in more detail. Whilst it gives the disposal date as being Jan 1965 it gives its withdrawal date of Sept 1965 so there is definitely an error. Added to that, 'The Streaks' by Roger Mannion gives the disposal date as 12/65. it also quotes 60027's last boiler as being No.29336.
Anybody got better/more definitive info?

 

i seem to remember that flying scotsman's spare boiler was at carnforth at some time in the 70's,sorry not to be more accurate,

 

I'm not convinced 60041 was ever fitted with an A4 boiler.

The numbers of the A4 boilers that are still around need checking. To start with the A4 one that is at Crewe now, which is supposedly from 60041. If someone can give me the number, I can try and work out what its history is.

 

According to Willie Yeadon's Register:-
Last Boiler: 29336 fitted at last general overhaul at the Plant on 18/1/62
Condemned: 3/9/65
Sold for scrap to G.H. Campbell, Shieldhall, 12/65

No mention in this volume or the RCTS green volume on the class of anything unusual happening with the locomotive's boiler

 

From The Sir Nigel Gresley Locomotive Preservation Trust Website:

BOILER No. 29336

Onto Eng No.60029 8/4/60 to 6/11/61 (WL 2yrs 0mths), OOU 2mths, onto Eng No. 60027 18/1/62 to 3/9/65 (WL 3yrs 8mths). Boiler withdrawn with Engine at this date. Total WL 5yrs 3mths, Total OOU 2mths, Total Life Span 5yrs 5mths. 2 Uses.

 

To further muddy the waters, I photographed Scotsman's spare boiler on a weltrol (?) wagon on Doncaster shed on 1st May 1966 in a clean and tidy condition, not at all like the boiler in the picture at Preston and also at least two months before the Preston picture.

Will post a picture when I can find it.

 

By the way the loco that went to Crew with No.7 was 60026 Miles Beaver; they were being dragged by a class 5 from Aberdeen to Crewe works, 007 to be overhauled and 026 to provide any parts and then cut up for scrap. Actually you have a picture of 60026! If I remember the wheels from 60026 were used on 4498 but the boiler then fitted to 60007 was retained.

 

Scotsman's spare boiler photographed at Doncaster Carr shed on 1st May 1966.

 

60026 Miles Beevor was stored at Motherwell Shed for a period in late summer 1966 and was removed to Crewe via Carnforth Shed (19th September 1966) as a source of spares for 60007.
The towing loco was 8F 48346

 

On a visit to Crewe Works on 21st August 1966, 60010 was present complete except for her chimney having arrived from Darlington. 60007's wheels and frames were outside the erecting shop in front of 71000 and her boiler and cab were inside the erecting shop.

No note was made of an additional LNER boiler seen so can only assume one wasn't visible.

 

I was told earlier today that Scotsmans spare boiler was taken from the boiler park at Doncaster a year or two after the engine was bought by Alan Pegler. It was supposedly the best that was still available out of several that were still there. Two or three others were also re-used as stationary boilers at various places. These were all A4 boilers, of which there were quite a large number made up to as late as 1961. It was kept at Doncaster on a wagon (as per photo) for several years until it was taken to Carnforth about the time the engine returned from the USA. Whilst at Carnforth someone put a sign in front of it to the effect that it was from Salmon Trout, and that became a running joke amongst a few people in the know, because it wasn't, though it did became another urban myth. Apparently the staff at Carnforth also didn't realise that it was an A4 boiler. That is until they took some tubes out of it and sent them up to Babcocks, where Scotsmans A3 boiler was under repair, only to discover they were too short. They also didn't realise certain fittings were located differently on the A4 boiler until it had actually been put on Scotsmans frame.

I'm not sure where that leaves us with the identity of Scotsmans spare boiler, or what the boiler was in the Preston Photo, or where it was destined. Except clearly they are not the same one.

Is there anyone near to Crewe who can go and look at the boiler number and put us out of our misery?

 

This is getting interesting. Do you know which part of the journey to Crewe was undertaken on the 19th September 1966?
I photographed 60026 on Kingmoor shed one evening in September 1966, a photo I would like to date more accurately; the A4 had obviously broken its' journey to the works.

 

She was definately on Carnforth MPD on 19/09/66. Whether she moved on to Crewe on that date I can't say. I saw her at Motherwell MPD on 10th September 1966 (the Shed Foreman had her dragged out from the shed by an 08 so we could get photographs (nice man). From what he said, 60026 had actually been 'rescued' from a local scrapyard, as her driving wheels were in better condition than those on 60007. 60026 was eventually cut up by Hughes @ Blythe.