Accessibilty as part of the experience package

I'm going to single out the Llangollen Railway here but I'm sure this applies to others.

If I was a member of the Great British Public visiting my day would have consisted in riding in reasonable condition Mk1s through gorgeous scenery hauled by a very spirited industrial tank, (that I suspect cross dresses as Thomas on occasions). As I'm an Enthusiast, I also noticed glimpses of such a lot more, particularly rolling stock and a hint of other locos. These were not accessible to passengers, the bulk of whom won't even have a clue they exist, and (here's the important bit) won't bother coming back because they think they have seen it all. Most passengers won't realise that the line is a far bigger undertaking than it appears

Is there any way lines with this type of layout could improve this aspect? I appreciate engineering facilities can't be thrown open willy-nilly, but perhaps a guided tour of other parts of the site could be arranged (in exchange for a donation perhaps) for interested parties.

Lines/Centres I have found good in this respect from recent experience would be Mid Hants, Bridgenorth and Didcot. Poor accessibility would include Dean Forest and GWR and also SVR Bewdley. I singled out Llangollen as it promised so much and delivered so little (sorry Llangollen, probably wouldn't bother with a second visit even though it is a very scenic line and no doubt will remain popular with average tourist

 

As the loco and C&W sheds are run by the PLC as a business, it is impossible to have them open to the general public during the week. On certain weekend throuout the year organised shed tours are available, but every weekend any enthusiast or member of public that askes the question will be given a tour of the loco shed by the volunteers. The C&W shed at Pentrefelyn is completly out of bounds to the public, due to the very nature of the place. Its a mile outside of Llangollen station, access is via a dirt track on top of the rail access to the yard, which has regular daily shunts going on, and parking is very limited in the yard. It is very unfortunate, and ways have, and still are being looked at to get public visits down there, but it isnt easy.

What else is it you were expecting that wasnt delivered??

And what other part of the site would you like a guided tour of?

You mention the loco that was in use during your visit. Jessie. It is normally a Thomas, and wouldn't be used on day to day passenger services on the railway, but this year we have suffered with a number of unfortunate loco failures and locos being sold or withdrawn for 10yearly overhaul all at the same time. So Jessie was covering some of the midweeks giving the staff a chance to do any maintenance required on 3802. 80072's firebox issues have now been resolved, and it is out covering the midweek turns.

As I've touched on above your visit was midweek. Our railway like many others is weekend focused on many aspects due to volunteer availibility.

 

Thanks for that. I had no issues with Jessie, it is a fine loco and probably delivered a better experience than a larger one would have. The trouble is with the loco works/ shed invisible to a visitor, they would have got the impression it was the only loco at the railway.

The problem I find with some railways (not necessarily Llangollen) is that they fall back on the "well we are volunteers and can only do so much" whereas a lot of the Public don't care about that, they are paying good money for a "theme park" type experience and expect it to be of the same standard as competing venues in other fields.

 

I'm puzzled by your views. I'm not involved in any form with the SVR, so could not be accused of holding any particular bias, but in my experience Bewdley has perhaps the best level of 'accessibility' behind the scenes of anywhere on the railway!

The Carriage & Waggon team will put a sign out at the end of the car park inviting members of the public to look around: You're welcome to walk through the workshop and have a general mooch at what they're up to without needing to specifically seek permission or join organised tours. By comparison, Bridgnorth these days is totally out of bounds beyond looking over the fence from the platform. It must be getting on 25 years since public access to shed and yard was freely permitted, and I don't think there was ever public access to the workshops - you'd have to stand at the door at the back of the shed to watch the wheel lathe in use, or just look through the door into the paint shop if it was open.

 

The product the railways are selling is a "train ride", possibly with a museum or visitor centre on site as well.

Do competing "theme park" venues in other fields offer as part of their attraction the ability for visitors to see extras? Do visitors to Alton Towers get to visit the electrical plant rooms to see the switch gear and control systems for the rides? Do visitors to National Trust properties expect to be able to call in at the cleaner's broom cupboard to see what brand of bleach they use? Do visitors to open air museums such as Blists Hill/Black Country/Beamish think something's missing from their visit if they don't get the chance to see the modern offices and staff changing rooms that are hidden away behind the heritage facade?

Surely it's a bit like going to the theatre to watch a show, then feeling you've missed out on something because you didn't get to see what the dressing rooms and backstage area necessary to put on the production look like as well?

 

Well I am SVR involved. Perhaps RG would like to attend our peep behind ths scenes weekend

http://www.svr.co.uk/SpecialEvents-View.aspx?id=50

I actually do agree that many of our customers may not appreciate the size of the undertaking. Here is a humorous example. I run in to KD with the teaks. C&W permenant staff ask if OK to wash. They disapear with the set using the 08. I go for coffee. Returning to the platform an Irate lady passenger askes why the train left early, "it was there a minute ago". It has not left madam it has gone for a wash. I thought I was going to be handbaged. Just then a dripping wet train apeared round the corner and I explained that hidden behind the shed was a fully automatic coach washer, like an oversized car wash, which each in service set visits at least once a week.

 

(I missed the sign at Bewdley, sorry Bewdley)

Frankly it won't do to say "ah that was midweek...you should come at the weekend" The public are just as likely to come during the week and all railways should strive to cater for them. I know there is a lot more to see at Llangollen and it is just silly to suggest I wanted to look at (say) the lathes in the workshop when there is a collection of locos there which I didn't see .I don't expect to see every last thing, I was quite happy at Bridgenorth to be able to view the shed yard.

The train ride experience was fine...the scenery is gorgeous..the stations are sensational. It's just that lines with facilities hidden from the public are missing a trick and if some way could be found to include a tour of some of the hidden bits they would be "adding value" as the modern idiom has it. That's my point

In any case I don't hold with the weekend is the time to come theory. Have a look at the Talyllyn's timetable and you'll find more trains run midweek than at the weekend plus (bonus for me) the vintage train runs on a Thursday.

 

Modern H&S and other legislation puts large areas of a railway out of bounds to the public other than controlled visits so even if a railway wanted to show off "behind the scenes," it's not always allowed to do so.
Observation galleries such as at NYMR and MHR can go a long way to rectifying this.

 

All depends on the arrival/departue day pattern in the area surrounding the railway in question. If Saturday/Sunday is the arrival/departure pattern then midweek timetables in the holiday season will see more trains but if the arrival/departure pattern is Monday or Friday then weekends will see more trains. Funnily enough I heard this from the Tal-y-Llyn back in the 70s and I presume it's match the same even now.

 

I acknowledged that in the first post. I would be perfectly happy to be able to see the loco yard from behind a barrier.
The Mid Hants is a good example of being able to experience more than just a "train ride"

 

Acknowledged what? Not sure to which post you are replying.

 

"I appreciate engineering facilities can't be thrown open willy-nilly, but perhaps a guided tour of other parts of the site could be arranged " is what I said.You made your second post as I was typing

 

Which is why Llangollen is more of a weekend railway. The majority of people have a day out in Llangollen, rather than a weeks holiday.

 

There physically isnt the room to do it in Llangollen yard. As Spamcan81 states above about the H&S side of things, it rules out any public access when the paid staff are going about their work. I'm sure the Grange, 47xx and Patriot group amongst others wouldnt be best pleased if work was to be stopped to allow a shed tour to take place. As i stated above, the paid staff work monday to friday, so any organised shed tours are at weekends, and likewise if anyone stuck their head in at a weekend, a volunteer would gladly show them around.

 

Well then if you can't find a way to do something in this area it's a great shame. You are missing out on revenue from punters already through the gate and they are missing out a large slice of their visit experience. Having never seen Llangollen yard for obvious reasons, I'll have to take your word there is no room for a viewing area.Please note I was not advocating shed visits.

 

Thanks.

 

I had a "spirited" argument with some people about this before, health and safety and people doing "recces" to come and nick things later are usually the main problems, I gave a fair few examples of this last time I posted on the subject. C+W at the GWSR was open for the whole of our recent gala, and I think will be again for the upcoming diesel gala, plus for the past few years and plans to do so next year too we have had specific open weekends with proper tours and everything. (only reason we didn't this year was because of all the new building work). There are plans afoot for the freight train to be put in a siding right next to the running line so it is more viewable. there is also a yards viewing are at Toddington where you can look near the sheds, and sometimes in them if it's open. I can't comment on other railways but what was your problem with the access at the GWSR then?

 

Hi Reading General, I'm pleased you found Mid Hants favourable. At Ropley especially, MHR are trying very hard to improve access. The yard is open as much as possible to allow our customers to get really close to engines, a viewing gallery and education centre is now open to see inside the loco shed from high level, a viewing gallery for the carriage works will be open once the extention to the Harry Potter bridge is completed.

I'm sure you will also appreciate there are many areas which have to be out of bounds due to welding, heavy machinery etc as these are industrial working environments. Normally on our Open days (20 Sept this year), access is allowed through the loco shed and into the wheel-drop pit shed for a real close up view on what is going on, I will confirm this nearer the date.

Of course, the best way of getting up close is to become a volunteer! (Shameless plug).

 

I think you'll find that the majority of people travel on the railway for a train ride to admire the wonderful scenery. People who want a 'theme park' type experience tend to go to theme parks.

Bob.